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[mountainguy]

I'm not sure how secret is anymore, but I appreciate the compliment :)

[spork]

The virus that is Mark Taylor has thoroughly infected the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/09/12/why-are-colleges-so-selective/the-perils-of-being-a-perfect-student

The quality of the Times continues to decay.

[kaysixteen]

What exactly is wrong with Taylor's argument in this short essay?  Like it or not, many college kids and recent BA grads today, including (especially?) those from uberelite institutions like my dear old Williams, have seen their huge investment in preparation time and big bucks as preparation for a lucrative career future, and they have largely been taught to so view things by their parents.  But now, even many grads from places like Williams, well... things are not as rosy as they once were, and this is not your grandfather's America.  As I was pondering in the 'college as luxury item' thread I started, this sort of thing is becoming clear on the radar screens of more and more  Americans, and things will have to change at least somewhat, no matter how much we liberal arts aficianados may wish things were to remain constant.

[magistra]

Here's one big argument with it, and one that's made it to the Washington Post:

Remember the community colleges

Community colleges cont'd

[jonesey]

Here's one big argument with it, and one that's made it to the Washington Post:

Remember the community colleges

Community colleges cont'd

I thought this comment was very, very accurate:

College is a lot more about the people you meet and a lot less about what you studied. And, like it or not, when people make hiring decisions, they're swayed more by where you went to school and less by what you know.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

In my State's system we've made it far easier for good students to take their first two-three years of undergraduate classes at their local CC for almost free, then transfer into a major at Big State University.  Unfortunately, the money to pay for their highly-subsidized CC courses came from shifting State funds away from the Big State U., so that when the CC students transfer into BSU they find their major departments have fewer faculty, fewer courses, bigger classes, decrepit facilities, etc. - DvF

[lotsoquestions]

Wait, so he's the guy who wrote the piece about the course he teaches on VIDEO GAMES and he's worried that other people are studying that are possibly insignificant and irrelevant?  I'm confused . . .

[magistra]

Here's one big argument with it, and one that's made it to the Washington Post:

Remember the community colleges

Community colleges cont'd

I thought this comment was very, very accurate:

College is a lot more about the people you meet and a lot less about what you studied. And, like it or not, when people make hiring decisions, they're swayed more by where you went to school and less by what you know.

I don't.  Lots of people don't have or even want jobs where you have to know someone with a Harvard pedigree.  Plenty of people are happy living in the town they grew up in, and you might need local juice, but you don't need private school credentials.  In my state, going to the flagship state school will get you at least as far as an Ivy League degree -- and if you want to go into politics, it's practically de rigeur.

[lotsoquestions]

Ditto what magistra said.  I grew up on the EAst Coast, so I assumed that everyone knew that places like Colby and Bates, Hamilton and Ithaca were good schools -- but in the deep south, it appears that the average person has never heard of these schools.  They would be much more impressed by the big state university that's down the road from us.  (My new measuring rod is:  If no one from your church has ever gone to a school, then it's probably not on your radar.  Chapel Hill?  Yes.  Yale?  Maybe.  Middlebury?  Definitely not.)  I have one kid with serious ambitions who will probably try to go to a big name school but for the daughter who wants to live in our area and become an elementary school teacher?  Much better to go to a school that people in the area might have heard of (probably because someone in their church went there.)

[jonesey]

But those are still examples of where you went being important.  State school for local politics.  Etc. 

It doesn't always mean Ivy.  I'm in the South.  I'm getting a degree at a school that has a very good reputation nationally, but is solid gold down here (especially if I stay in my current state). 

Regional reputation is another "where did you go" example of status. 

FWIW, I'd never heard of Colby until about a year ago.  I don't know what Hamilton and Bates are, and only know Ithaca because I had family living in Courtland a few years back. 

A lot of people from the East Coast assume that "everyone" has heard of their private, expensive, 500 student baby-Ivys.  We haven't.  The East Coast is not the center of the world.  Neither, of course, is California, a fact it took me years to realize.  : )

[magistra]

But the reputation of a school is based on the perceived quality of the school and its students as much, if not more so, than networking.  Students may be hired not because their roommate's cousin is the employer, but because there's confidence that the person will be able to work at a certain level.  The ivies purportedly deliver both, but it's two different things, which the original commenter didn't grasp.  Besides, we were discussing elitism and whether schools are worth the cost.  Georgia State may be more valuable for entering state politics than Harvard, but that doesn't make it elite. 

[jonesey]

Georgia State may be more valuable for entering state politics than Harvard, but that doesn't make it elite. 

That depends on the students.  I teach CC and FP students: for them, Georgia State or UGA is very elite.

[systeme_d_]

Since this is the Mark Taylor thread,  I wish to point him (and all other interested parties) to this brief Newsweek article:
http://education.newsweek.com/2010/09/12/religious-studies-thrive-in-troubled-times.html

A salient quotation:

In a world defined by religious conflict—in the Middle East, in Africa, and in the culture wars at home—colleges and universities have come to consider religious studies increasingly important. In 2009, the American Historical Association announced that for the first time the history of religion was the most popular specialty among professional historians. The number of bachelors’ degrees conferred upon graduates in philosophy or religious studies has doubled since the 1970s to nearly 12,000 a year, and has been rising steadily since 9/11. “The study of religion,” says Jeanne Kilde, who has started a new program at the University of Minnesota, “is a growth industry.”

Yay, Jeanne!

[dellaroux]

And since we're cross-referencing, I was looking for a place to put this (reference to his NYTimes article about 1/3 in)

   http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N36/tenure.html

I thought the article itself (the one above) was fairly well-researched, otherwise, though.

[egilson]

Too incompetent to spam correctly - not once, but twice. That's really the product most perfect.