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[jaber123]

The issue of Proposition 8 and same sex marriage has been a topic in many classes (state university, MSW program). It has always been appropriate for the classroom topic. The professors always maintained (or tried to maintain) an air of neutrality. This has led to many great discussions that have expanded my views of the issue.

 Recently, I had a professor tell the class how she has been discriminated against, and what members of my faith (without naming the faith) did to her by the money donated. She didn't say she would get mad or lower grades or anything but I really felt like I could not respond without being labeled. I just felt very judged by her, I was what she was saying about the “they”. I'm pretty sure she knows what my faith is. GLBT issues are a common topic in the class, the most used example for about anything. However, this was the first time she talked about what she felt, how she was discriminated and lied about, and how wrong “they” are.

I can't decide whether this should bother me or not. She has the right to share her opinion, but as the professor she should know how it will stifle discussion. I don't feel like I can ask her. Its distracting me from my studies.

[smart_e_pantz]

The issue of Proposition 8 and same sex marriage has been a topic in many classes (state university, MSW program). It has always been appropriate for the classroom topic. The professors always maintained (or tried to maintain) an air of neutrality. This has led to many great discussions that have expanded my views of the issue.

 Recently, I had a professor tell the class how she has been discriminated against, and what members of my faith (without naming the faith) did to her by the money donated. She didn't say she would get mad or lower grades or anything but I really felt like I could not respond without being labeled. I just felt very judged by her, I was what she was saying about the “they”. I'm pretty sure she knows what my faith is. GLBT issues are a common topic in the class, the most used example for about anything. However, this was the first time she talked about what she felt, how she was discriminated and lied about, and how wrong “they” are.

I can't decide whether this should bother me or not. She has the right to share her opinion, but as the professor she should know how it will stifle discussion. I don't feel like I can ask her. Its distracting me from my studies.

So, you're a Mormon and you're cheesed off because your professor is cheesed off because she can't get married because the Mormon church encouraged their members to donate millions of dollars in support of Proposition 8?

[jaber123]

Yes and no. She is not the first professor to disagree with me on this issue, and to be fair, many issues. However this was different. It was more hostile and angry with no room for discussion. I choose not to and also because she did not open it up to discussion.  Like I said, not sure if this should bug me or not. However, this probably will continue in the class. I will take full responsibility for any action I took in regards to Proposition 8. I was never upset or bugged about protesters of proposition 8, it is everyone's right to protest. I would be happy to talk to her about it, but this wasn't about talking or sharing ideas. It was venting. Seemed unprofessional to me. But maybe I am wrong.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Every time a Christian in the US dons the mantle of victimhood, an angel's head explodes. - DvF

[harmless_eccentric]

Sometimes teachers don't want to open something up for discussion, and that is totally appropriate.  This isn't 1940s radio where you have to give equal time. 

[voxprincipalis]

She didn't say she would get mad or lower grades or anything but I really felt like I could not respond without being labeled.

Well, of course not. That would be unethical.

I just felt very judged by her

Huh.

I was what she was saying about the “they”.

And she was what you were saying about the "they." How does that shoe feel on the other foot?

I will take full responsibility for any action I took in regards to Proposition 8.

<snip>

I would be happy to talk to her about it, but this wasn't about talking or sharing ideas.

In other words, you would be happy to reinforce your discrimination and your own judgment. We don't "share ideas" about why it is morally acceptable to discriminate.

I'm so sorry that you have been discomfited by being confronted with a real live angry, hurt victim of your discrimination. The discomfort you feel is distracting you from your studies? Is that your conscience talking, maybe? And imagine how the discomfort *she* feels, which is FAR greater than yours, is interfering with her work -- and her family life, her relationships, her sense of societal acceptance, her legal issues (taxes, wills, medical benefits). Your professor is a *person.* Imagine how hurt she is.

Being in the classroom is not a security blanket that will shield you from dealing with issues that are uncomfortable to you -- especially, I would imagine, in an MSW program.

VP

[egilson]

Taking this description of the classroom interaction at face value, then I do think that the professor crossed the line from instruction into advocacy (and was a bit simple-minded about it to boot). That doesn't mean you can or should follow suit. I'd say learn the material, practice seeing the many human sides of each issue with fairness and compassion while holding fast to your own beliefs, and do well in the class without engaging in your own advocacy. If she has truly stifled the discussion of any but her own views, it will be clear to everyone soon enough.

By the way, I've been in a domestic partnership for twenty years, and, if I lived in California I would have voted in favor of Proposition 8 for what are carefully and long-considered reasons.

[hipgeek]

Every time a Christian in the US dons the mantle of victimhood, an angel's head explodes. - DvF

DvF, you rock.

OP, I understand that you feel alienated because you may not share this prof's and, as it sounds, many other profs' views.  Did you express your concerns to her at any point, even in a polite email, about how she articulated her opinion?

I don't know exactly what the context of this discussion you relate was, but I think even when you disagree, hearing a prof reveal personal views can be incredibly constructive.  If there is respect on both sides, both can learn something.  You say she was "venting" and "unprofessional."  Okay. She's upset.  But I don't think being upset and expressing anger are always necessarily unprofessional.

[kamiakin]

You have met a victim of your bigotry. Is she supposed to say thank you? Is she supposed to act like it does not matter that she cannot marry? That she cannot share health benefits with her partner? That she cannot visit her partner in the hospital?

When you support discrimination the victims get angry. Go figure.

[quietly]

Every time a Christian in the US dons the mantle of victimhood, an angel's head explodes. - DvF

DvF, you rock.

OP, I understand that you feel alienated because you may not share this prof's and, as it sounds, many other profs' views.  Did you express your concerns to her at any point, even in a polite email, about how she articulated her opinion?

Agreed, on DvF.  But I wouldn't advise such an email.  I can't imagine anything constructive coming out of that.  How would it go?

Student: What you said in class was an interesting point of view but I'm concerned that it wasn't opened for discussion.   As someone who doesn't believe you have a right to be treated the same as everyone else when it comes to your legal cases, health care, parental rights and tax benefits, I'm concerned that you won't treat me the same as everyone else when it comes to this little iddy biddy class that I really want a good grade in.

(Yes, I'm exaggerating, but that's what she'll hear, and to be fair that's what you'd be saying, no matter the language.)  

Jaber, she's not going to discriminate against you in her grades, unless you write a paper saying how a social worker shouldn't approve the adoption application of a gay parent because even though the law allows it, your interpretation of the Bible doesn't.  But giving that paper an F wouldn't be discrimination: that would be the appropriate act of a professor in an MSW program.  Isn't non-judgment intrinsic to a social worker's education and profession? You may privately disagree with the way someone lives, but it's not your role or place to force your views on others.

Moreover, there's nothing to discuss: she told the class how she has been discriminated against.  You aren't going to convince her she hasn't been; she knows she has.  It probably wasn't appropriate to bring up her personal experience in class, and her aim might have been more effectively achieved by bringing in a guest speaker to talk about how s/he has been affected by the proposition, or simply by using third-person language like "here's why people are upset about this."   But she's a human being who has been materially and emotionally hurt, and sometimes it's impossible to depersonalize something so intrinsic to one's everyday existence.

Maybe it shouldn't be depersonalized, either.  This fear of discrimination is probably a good thing for you to experience--it'll make you a better social worker and a better human being.

[relationalista]

I can't decide whether this should bother me or not. She has the right to share her opinion, but as the professor she should know how it will stifle discussion. I don't feel like I can ask her. Its distracting me from my studies.

If you can't decide whether or not this should bother you, then you're not bothered enough to be bothered. Professors have views and can express them, just as you can have and express yours. And don't blame your professor for your being distracted from your studies. Just get on with it.

[grasshopper]

I think it's wonderful that you are bothered by this. Being bothered by this is probably one of the best things that could have happened to you.

Not because I hope that it will be a catalyst to changing views (which I do), but because any challenge to a dominant worldview has the potential to be a catalyst to learning.

Whether you change your opinion or not, your opinion is being challenged. You have the opportunity to rise to that challenge, and think critically about both (actually, multiple) sides to this argument. This is a godsend, especially for someone in a Masters of Social Work program. You are being given a forum in which to explore how your personal beliefs will come into conflict with the lives of real, actual people - and they will, daily, if you practice social work. Being bothered right now is a gift.

Let me tell you, learning is hard and often uncomfortable. I would love nothing more than for you to come out of this with a different perspective on Prop 8. But whether you do or not, you have the chance - right here, right now - to learn how to think critically about this issue. And learning how to think critically about this issue will teach you how to think critically about other issues that will, inevitably, come up.

If I were able to give you only one piece of advice, it would be this: don't turn down the volume on your discomfort. Don't ignore it. Don't ignore your professor. Listen, think, evaluate, rethink, evaluate some more. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[yellowtractor]

The issue of Proposition 8 and same sex marriage has been a topic in many classes (state university, MSW program). It has always been appropriate for the classroom topic. The professors always maintained (or tried to maintain) an air of neutrality. This has led to many great discussions that have expanded my views of the issue.

 Recently, I had a professor tell the class how she has been discriminated against, and what members of my faith (without naming the faith) did to her by the money donated. She didn't say she would get mad or lower grades or anything but I really felt like I could not respond without being labeled. I just felt very judged by her, I was what she was saying about the “they”. I'm pretty sure she knows what my faith is. GLBT issues are a common topic in the class, the most used example for about anything. However, this was the first time she talked about what she felt, how she was discriminated and lied about, and how wrong “they” are.

I can't decide whether this should bother me or not. She has the right to share her opinion, but as the professor she should know how it will stifle discussion. I don't feel like I can ask her. Its distracting me from my studies.

But not nearly as distracting as your failure to use standard punctuation.  Failure to punctuate correctly has been linked to many other problems, include heart disease, Powerpoint, and bad hair.  Seek help.

Seriously:  You haven't provided any evidence of actual discrimination here.  All you've said is that as a Mormon (I presume) you have felt uncomfortable with your professor's comments on same-sex marriage and Proposition 8.  I'm sorry you've felt uncomfortable.  But feeling uncomfortable is not the same thing as feeling "judged," and feeling judged is not the same things as being discriminated against in any way.

You have simply discovered that not everyone feels the same way you, or the religious organization to which you belong, believe--that there are flesh-and-blood people on the other side of this particular issue, and that some of these people are directly involved in your life.  Depending on the class, it may or may not have been professionally inappropriate for your professor to vent on this subject.

You have three choices, under the circumstances:  (a) engage your professor in the classroom (since she brought it up); (b) speak to your professor privately in office hours; or (c) ignore it and move on with your work, understanding how strongly many people feel on both sides of this issue.  If it were me, I would probably elect (b)--but I'm like that, and you must understand that this will only draw more attention to you, as a representative of both your faith and your faith's stance on this particular issue.  Especially at this late point in the semester, I think you would be wise to choose (c).  And then, if you still feel troubled, visit her in office hours after your professional engagement with her is over.

If you approach her in any way, though, now or later, be prepared for an emotional and very difficult encounter--for all the reasons cited hitherto on this thread.

[rroscoe]

quote: "Every time a Christian in the US dons the mantle of victimhood, an angel's head explodes."

Uh, no. Mormons aren't Christians in the first place. Anyone who understands the basics of Christianity knows that. I don't say this to insult Mormons, but in a descriptive manner. Christians don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet or that the current leader of the Mormon Church is a prophet, that the book of Mormon is Scripture, that the Mormon Church is the restored church, that Jesus visited the Americas, that Jews lived in the Americas before Columbus, and that humans can become gods. Christians also don't have temples as do Mormons, nor do Christians view marriage in the same way as Mormons. The Mormon view of God and their Christology also significantly differs from basic, orthodox Christianity. Christian churches generally re-baptize converts from Mormonism, which means they don't recognize Mormons as Christians.
  
If Mormons can be called Christians, then I don't see why Christians can't call themselves Jews. Really, this isn't about politics or insulting Mormons by calling them non-Christians. It's about accurately describing belief systems.

rroscoe

[yellowtractor]

quote: "Every time a Christian in the US dons the mantle of victimhood, an angel's head explodes."

Uh, no. Mormons aren't Christians in the first place. Anyone who understands the basics of Christianity knows that. I don't say this to insult Mormons, but in a descriptive manner. Christians don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet or that the current leader of the Mormon Church is a prophet, that the book of Mormon is Scripture, that the Mormon Church is the restored church, that Jesus visited the Americas, that Jews lived in the Americas before Columbus, and that humans can become gods. Christians also don't have temples as do Mormons, nor do Christians view marriage in the same way as Mormons. The Mormon view of God and their Christology also significantly differs from basic, orthodox Christianity. Christian churches generally re-baptize converts from Mormonism, which means they don't recognize Mormons as Christians.
  
If Mormons can be called Christians, then I don't see why Christians can't call themselves Jews. Really, this isn't about politics or insulting Mormons by calling them non-Christians. It's about accurately describing belief systems.

rroscoe

Which would make an interesting topic for another thread, if you want to start it.  Better not to hijack this one.