next »

[nordicexpat]

Interesting to see the variety of opinions. I am glad to see that Bologna is working for some.  Wonder whether difference depends upon how well the university/department is run.  Our discussion about the new syllabus didn't resemble anything like expat scan's (ours was: we don't have time to discuss this: admin wants it next week. Just write something down).  And exchange programs are equally chaotic.  Our students go abroad whenever they want to: second year, third year, fifth year, or whenever.  And yes, I have had more than my fair share of students who wander into class a few weeks late and tell me that they missed class because they were abroad (and sometimes they were not even on an exchange program).  And we don't find out about who is coming to us from abroad until the first week of class (and then the exchange students complain because they want something to take something like 20 credits in a subject we are not even teaching that semester).

About accountability... I do think it would be good if universities were held accountable for students graduating.  The dropout rate for individual classes is sometimes staggering, and I often suspect that some lecturers/profs are glad that students drop out/don't write theses because that means less work.  Still, there needs to be some way of making students accountable. While we have an entrance exam, once students have gained the right to study, it is almost impossible for them to lose it, regardless of their performance (or, indeed, whether they are even attending courses).  I once had half a class simply not do the final paper, and when I emailed them to tell them it was a waste to have attended an entire semester without getting any credit, I was told by more than one, "Oh, that's OK. I learned a lot anyway" (and I think they meant that sincerely: they actually enjoy learning, but they don't see a corresponding obligation on their part).  If you couple the impossibility of losing a right to study with free tuition, numerous student reductions in the price of food, housing, and transportation, uncertain job prospects), etc. it is not terribly surprising that students take forever to complete their degrees (or simply study the humanities for X number of years and then switch to something else when they begin to think of what they will do after graduation). There is only so much that universities (or actually departments, since universities have largely passed the buck to departments, holding them financially responsible if students don't graduate in greater numbers).  

My feeling about Bologna is that governments shifted a lot of responsibility onto universities without giving them more resources or power to enact changes that might actually work.  Again, that might not be Bologna's fault as it is will the implementation, but still . . .

[normative_]

And exchange programs are equally chaotic.

It's a massive undertaking. And it requires a one-stop shop for the student to work properly.

A key question is whether you have administrative support for this or not. By which I mean, someone on full-time salary who, for part of the year, does nothing but process these applications. Usually a faculty member needs to approve the forms, but it's best if the legwork is done before hand. Otherwise...it just won't happen.

(and then the exchange students complain because they want something to take something like 20 credits in a subject we are not even teaching that semester).

The Erasmus coordination staff can also handle this, so the Learning Agreements are properly filled out by the time the faculty member gets them. That, in turn, requires the department to provide timely information to the Erasmus Coordinator on which courses are being offered.

Beyond that, I would say one problem in practice with the Erasmus programme from an implementation standpoint is that the agreements are on the departmental level. Let's say you're an exchange student studying anthropology. You want to take a cool course in sociology at your exchange institution as one of your electives, but you may not be able to do so, because there's no department2department agreement. If it were an anthropology course, you wouldn't have people telling you 'This course is very popular, and it's closed', but they very well may in another department. A lot of students find themselve in limbo until well into the add/drop period. The chaos can be breathtaking.

[nordicexpat]

A drop-add period?  We don't even have a registration process.   

[normative_]

Oh yes, that's fun. Two weeks is the usual drop/add period, and it applies to exchange students as well as homies.* You should be registering the students in the system before they get there, or at least with a few days of arrival. And that, hopefully, is a few working days before classes.


*I know it has another use/meaning, but I don't care. It sounds right here.

[expat_scand]

I would largely agree with nordicexpat's comments. Maybe this is a Scandinavian perspective on Bologna. Overall it is beneficial that everyone has the same degree terminology, even if there will always be uncertainty over exactly how equal everything is. But as I commented earlier, this even exists within countries.

What is interesting is the fact that in many countries the belief is that their particular academic degree format is better than others: the English master's, completed after 4 years, is better than Bologna 3+2 master's degrees elsewhere in Europe; the German Diplom is better than the master's and better than in other countries, etc. Sorry to say that I have always laughed a bit at calling an English 3+1 master's degree or even a Swedish magister (translated as master's degree), which is also in theory 3+1, equivalent to the US 4+2 master's degree. At least with the Bologna 3+2 there is some similarity all around.

One problem that remains, however, is standardization of the PhD. Most countries have retained a 3-year degree, which I think is the recommended in Bologna. Sweden has retained the 4-year degree making it 3+2+4 years. Compare this to 3+1+3 in England.