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[the_hanged_man]

I've been researching Educational Measurement programs, and am wondering how the composition of the student body would affect my experience as a grad student. Let's take these two programs' student page as an example:
MSU - http://ed-web3.educ.msu.edu/cepse/mqm/students.htm
JMU - http://www.jmu.edu/assessment/people/phdstudent.htm

Both of these programs are well respected in their fields and have a reputation for producing excellent scholars and professionals. However, a quick glance between the two student pages show marked differences in their student body. MSU's program has a large proportion, around 2/3rds, of students of Asian descent many of whom are likely international students. JMU's program seems to be mostly US citizens of varying descents.

Is this a factor I should take into consideration when deciding between schools or is the difference immaterial?  Just curious!

[unnamed]

MSU's program has a large proportion, around 2/3rds, of students of Asian descent many of whom are likely international students. JMU's program seems to be mostly US citizens of varying descents.

Is this a factor I should take into consideration when deciding between schools or is the difference immaterial?  Just curious!

Seriously?

For the record, only 4 (of 30+) of the current MSU students on the page you link to mention that they have previously lived in another country.  I am curious, however, how you could tell that the students listed on the JMU page were citizens.

If you're correct that these programs are well respected, then all these students have shown themselves to be academically capable.  They have passed an English test, and their background and preparation was deemed at least as good as your own (anecdotally, I've heard that the bar for admission is in fact higher for international students). 

Which do you find more problematic in your future classmates - Asian descent or non-US citizenship? What potential drawbacks were you thinking of?  You might find yourself pleasantly surprised at the effects of building collegial relationships with people you seems to think of as very different from you.

Rereading your post, I realize you don't actually say which scenario is making you hesitate; I've assumed it's the majority Asian/international school that bothers you. If I've assumed wrongly, I guess I still don't see what problems you're expecting.

[the_hanged_man]

Yes, you have assumed wrongly.

For the record, I have spent the majority of my professional life abroad mostly in Asia. I have done this because I am fascinated by Asian culture and language and enjoy working and interacting with many different types of people.

I am asking this question because I value diversity in a student body, and not opposite that you have mistakenly assumed. I'm more interested in programs that don't simply admit people by ranking their test scores/gpas, but rather makes the genuine effort to build a diverse student body. Many universities have admissions policies in place to encourage this sort of thing.

Why did you automatically assume that I thought MSU was 'bad' and JMU was 'good' when I made no such statement?

[the_hanged_man]

I also don't think JMU is 'bad' either. I'm just curious why two schools with very similar programs can have such markedly different student bodies. The university and program I choose will be the community I have to live with for the next 5-6 years of my life so I want it to be a good fit!

[laurel_knx]

Why did you automatically assume that I thought MSU was 'bad' and JMU was 'good' when I made no such statement?

I assumed it, too. It's a common fire-starter of trolls on the fora. You were ambiguous, don't try to throw it back on unnamed.

I'm more interested in programs that don't simply admit people by ranking their test scores/gpas, but rather makes the genuine effort to build a diverse student body. Many universities have admissions policies in place to encourage this sort of thing.

Grad school is less like that anyway. They cull people who don't meet a certain minimum test score, but after that, it's a matter of picking people who fit with profs who can take them on. I think one explanation for JMU's lack of Asian folks could be that it's new. Some international people I know came to my program because they knew other people who had come. I really doubt JMU is doing anything to keep that way, they probably just aren't well known yet on other continents.

I don't think you'll have any problem finding measurement departments with plenty of international students. If you're interested in culture and diversity, pay more attention to the towns the schools are in. That's where you'll find the important variability.

[imawakenow]

Is this a factor I should take into consideration when deciding between schools or is the difference immaterial?  Just curious!

Well, you've stated in another post that "a diverse student body" is important to you, so you have to know yourself and what you need to be happy and productive.

Having said that, I think the more important factors in choosing a department are things like: who your adviser would be? what is his or her working relationship like with advisees? what are your long-term goals and have other people in the program acheived those goals? what level of support (both monetary and institutional) do grad students receive? what is the research culture in the department/how productive are the faculty and other grad students?

My position would be that interacting with international students and experiencing diversity would be easier to obtain outside your department, if needed. The others on my list; not so much.

BTW, based on my experience interacting with a number of people from Michigan State (both grad students and faculty), I'd suggest that it's highly likely that they used the traditional measures of LORs, GPA, GRE, etc. when deciding whom to admit.

[unnamed]

Why did you automatically assume that I thought MSU was 'bad' and JMU was 'good' when I made no such statement?

Partly for the reason Laurel Knx said; partly because I'm a cynic.  I apologise if I caused you offense.

Anyway, you've answered my main question about why you foresee that this will be important.  I agree with previous posters that only you can judge how important it will be for you to be in a diverse group.  Another thought though: just as people with no little or no interaction with other cultures might benefit from an ethnically diverse classroom, do you think that the seemingly less diverse class could similary benefit you by maybe pushing you out of your comfort zone?     

[rndmgrad]

My wife and I are both JMU alumni.  I've worked with folks in the Measurement Program, and they do solid work.  However, the student body is astonishingly homogeneous.  Even setting aside the fact that it is almost totally White and American, the students come from a fairly small geographic area and a pretty narrow class background.  Harrisonburg is also pretty lacking in this regard.  If you are a minority student, you could feel somewhat out of place (my friends often complained of this).  If diversity is an important part of your research or your set of preferences, you may be disappointed.

[juillet]

"Asian culture and language" - I'm guessing that it was not your intent to homogenize Asians, but I think there should be an 's' at the end of both of those words ("cultures and languages") considering that there are a wide variety of both on the huge continent of Asia.

In any event, the academics of a particular school may not be hindered by the lack of international students, but the feel of the campus and the area and the diversity of opinions and experiences in the classroom are certainly enriched by international students.  I attend a program with a large proportion of international students in a large, global city and the effect is great -- I learn so much from my classmates who have lived and worked abroad for substantial periods of their lives and it puts a global cast upon the issues we discuss.

[dreamingofslac]

I am asking this question because I value diversity in a student body, and not opposite that you have mistakenly assumed.

I assumed the same thing when reading this post initially.  You should maybe think instead about how you presented your question in the context of a written fora.

[helpful]

Chime on the need to use Asians, not Asian.

For heaven's sake, Turkey is in Asia, and so is parts of Russia.

[the_hanged_man]

My wife and I are both JMU alumni.  I've worked with folks in the Measurement Program, and they do solid work.  However, the student body is astonishingly homogeneous.  Even setting aside the fact that it is almost totally White and American, the students come from a fairly small geographic area and a pretty narrow class background.  Harrisonburg is also pretty lacking in this regard.  If you are a minority student, you could feel somewhat out of place (my friends often complained of this).  If diversity is an important part of your research or your set of preferences, you may be disappointed.

I admit my question was poorly framed in context of the fora. The above response concerning diversity was I was aiming for, and it wasn't my intent to ruffle any feathers.