next »

[joscelyn_lauren]

I realize I'm a late bloomer in trying to attain my Master's and Psy.D. through Chicago School of Professional Psychology.  I am 50, and it's taken me this long to have the confidence to get that higher degree; I now have time for myself to study.  I did it all backwards.  I had the marriage and kids first, then a divorce and remarry, and suddenly I'm 50, my youngest only 19.  And now I'd like to go back to school.  So what do I do with the rest of my life?  I got a B.A. in Behavioral Science, and a B.S. in Sociology.  But I can't do anything with that.  I can't have a decent salary with that.  So I thought I'd go for a Psy.D.  Am I too old?  Do I want to get into that kind of debt?  That's really what I'm concerned about. 

[psyche74]

I knew people at Southern Illinois University in their fifties or sixties who were pursuing PhD's, and one of them knew of a woman in her 70's pursuing a PhD at another University. So I would say you are never too old! Of course, it's likely that your options would not be as broad, particularly for top schools, but you never know what you can achieve with the right sales pitch :)

As far as debt, I would just look to see what the options were with various programs and the stipends offered.

[everest]

I'm not in clinical psychology. I have friends who are in clinical psych PhD programs.  Here are their thoughts about PsyD programs (this is biased)

The bad:
1. expensive! there are no stipends! 
2. you don't make enough money afterward to pay off those huge loans (I heard about a PsyD student who has $1100/mo loans to pay off during internship, where you make $20,000/yr)
3. PsyDs have a hard time getting accepted for internship & externship.  it's unfair, but they are looked at second after PhD students, and fill the remaining spots (if any).  it's not worth going through all that school if you can't get licensed!

The good:
1. excellent clinical training! i cannot stress this enough.

Have you considered a counseling MA? Less school, less money, more internships, and same outcome--you're a clinician.

Talk with PsyDs in the current program at CSPP.  Talk with graduates.  See what they say about all of this.

With regards to age, I think you are BRAVE and about to embark on an exciting journey!  Many kudos to you!  However, remember that you will be very poor for a number of years (during grad school, after grad school).  If this adjustment is ok with you, then follow your passion.

[womanofproperty]

As other posters have noted, there are problems with PsyDs.  It's not just cost, though that is certainly an issue.  There are tremendous differences among programs.  Some are excellent.  Some are a waste of tuition.  Personally, for both those issues I'm not a fan of the Chicago School of Professional Psychology - you'll pay a lot of money for mediocre training. 

Another option is to get a masters - less money and you will still be able to work with people.

There are master's programs in counseling psychology.  Counseling psychologists advise people on how to deal with problems of everyday living, including career, work or family problems.  They can work in individual or group practices.

Another clinical option - and a growing area - is school psychology.  School psychologists work with elementary & secondary school students.  They evaluate students with disabilities and behavioral problems and suggest ways to deal with learning and behavioral problems.

Finally, many M.S.W.s work with clients as therapists. 

Check out the state licensing requirements (they're on line) for clinical psychology, counseling psychology & social work because if you work in this area you need to be licensed, attend an approved program and take the state exam.

If I were in your position, I would look for a good masters program in psychology or social work.  There are a few master's programs in clinical psychology, more in counseling psychology and social work.  I suggest that path because then you'd be able to start doing what you want to do more quickly and with less cost. 

If you absolutely must get a PsyD, check out different programs in your area.  If you graduate from an excellent program, you should be able to go into the field with no difficulty.  If you choose a poor program, you'll end up with a lot of debt & few work prospects.  So make sure you do your homework.

[kedves]

I agree with previous advice that age per se is not the big question.  Youth in the form of inexperience can be a disadvantage.  What you should ask is if this degree is the most efficient means to achieve your career goal--in terms of money, time, training, and relevant credential.  Time-to-degree or -job probably has a different meaning to you than it would to someone who is 25, and maybe debt does, too.  I would suggest looking into master's programs. 

[daurousseau]

Psy.D. is typically a 5 year program. Just do the math and see if there will be enough time to pay off any student loans before you want to retire. Consider that some careers don't pay a lot. But some do--forensic psychology can attract the $$$.

You can ignore the Ph.D. vs. Psy.D. thing. It's an issue here and there but the superior clinical training you get from a good Psy.D. program is pretty well know in the profession. So if you want to practice rather than, say, teach, it's not a disadvantage.

[returningstudentat50]

Thank you so much for all of your advice.  You really made me think.  I don't want all that debt.  Wow. I just wish I would have started a long time ago.  Dumb me.  Anyway, I will consider Forensic Psychology and other Master's Programs.  Keep posting any other ideas!!!

[ideagirl]

Thank you so much for all of your advice.  You really made me think.  I don't want all that debt.  Wow. I just wish I would have started a long time ago.  Dumb me.  Anyway, I will consider Forensic Psychology and other Master's Programs.  Keep posting any other ideas!!!

If you want to go into counseling, which I assume was what you were shooting for with the Psy.D., check what your state requires for licensure--many (most?) states allow MSW's to work as therapists. My therapist is an MSW who also got Gestalt training. She's really, really great. She's in her mid-seventies.

An MSW is obviously a much, much cheaper route into the field, not just in terms of tuition (2 yrs vs. 5 yrs), but in terms of opportunity cost (with the MSW in two years you can start working and earning, whereas with the Psy.D. it will take you 3 more years of NOT working/NOT earning before you get the degree).

[daurousseau]

To make money in forensic psychology, you will need a doctorate. The lawyers want someone whose evidence will sail through in court without much question. Nothing to do with forensic science.

[daurousseau]

Thank you so much for all of your advice.  You really made me think.  I don't want all that debt.  Wow. I just wish I would have started a long time ago.  Dumb me.  Anyway, I will consider Forensic Psychology and other Master's Programs.  Keep posting any other ideas!!!

If you want to go into counseling, which I assume was what you were shooting for with the Psy.D., check what your state requires for licensure--many (most?) states allow MSW's to work as therapists. My therapist is an MSW who also got Gestalt training. She's really, really great. She's in her mid-seventies.

An MSW is obviously a much, much cheaper route into the field, not just in terms of tuition (2 yrs vs. 5 yrs), but in terms of opportunity cost (with the MSW in two years you can start working and earning, whereas with the Psy.D. it will take you 3 more years of NOT working/NOT earning before you get the degree).

The Psy.D. and counseling degrees at any level are different programs with their own interests and standards. A clinical psychology degree gets you nowhere in counseling, and vice versa.

[ideagirl]

The Psy.D. and counseling degrees at any level are different programs with their own interests and standards. A clinical psychology degree gets you nowhere in counseling, and vice versa.

That's not my understanding. For example...
http://www.liu.edu/CWIS/CWP/clas/psych/doctoral/faq.html
"A Psy.D. prepares the student to work in a variety of clinical settings, ranging from family therapy to working with severely disturbed patients in mental institutions. A Ph.D. [in psychology] prepares the student to work as a researcher, teacher, and practitioner."

http://www.internationalgraduate.net/psyd.htm

http://www.science-engineering.net/america/psyd_psychology_programs.htm
"The Psy.D. and the Ph.D. are both degrees that are used to train psychologists....Since Psy.D. training is geared toward learning to be a practitioner, many Psy.D.-educated psychologists do at least some of their work in clinical settings. Psy.D.-trained psychologists work in fields as diverse as private practice, hospitals, corporations, disaster relief centers, outpatient clinics, community mental health centers, schools and colleges, to name a few."

[daurousseau]

The Psy.D. and counseling degrees at any level are different programs with their own interests and standards. A clinical psychology degree gets you nowhere in counseling, and vice versa.

That's not my understanding. For example...
http://www.liu.edu/CWIS/CWP/clas/psych/doctoral/faq.html
"A Psy.D. prepares the student to work in a variety of clinical settings, ranging from family therapy to working with severely disturbed patients in mental institutions. A Ph.D. [in psychology] prepares the student to work as a researcher, teacher, and practitioner."

http://www.internationalgraduate.net/psyd.htm

http://www.science-engineering.net/america/psyd_psychology_programs.htm
"The Psy.D. and the Ph.D. are both degrees that are used to train psychologists....Since Psy.D. training is geared toward learning to be a practitioner, many Psy.D.-educated psychologists do at least some of their work in clinical settings. Psy.D.-trained psychologists work in fields as diverse as private practice, hospitals, corporations, disaster relief centers, outpatient clinics, community mental health centers, schools and colleges, to name a few."

Yes, that's all quite right. But we were talking about the difference between two distinct fields: clinical psychology and professional counseling. There is a separate and unrelated differentiation between clinical psychology with a Psy.D. and clinical psychology with a Ph.D. If you want to advance in professional counseling, you move up to an Ed.D. or a Ph.D. in something like counselor supervision.

Of course you can work for a living or do an internship in, say, a univesity or community counseling center as a clinical psychologist. Like lawyers work in government. Counselors don't work much in clinical settings, as civil servants without JDs don't practice law.

[ideagirl]

Yes, that's all quite right. But we were talking about the difference between two distinct fields: clinical psychology and professional counseling. There is a separate and unrelated differentiation between clinical psychology with a Psy.D. and clinical psychology with a Ph.D. If you want to advance in professional counseling, you move up to an Ed.D. or a Ph.D. in something like counselor supervision.

Of course you can work for a living or do an internship in, say, a univesity or community counseling center as a clinical psychologist. Like lawyers work in government. Counselors don't work much in clinical settings, as civil servants without JDs don't practice law.

My point was that, since many people do Psy.D.'s in order to become counseling psychologists (and indeed, the desire to be a counseling psychologist is precisely what motivates some students to get the Psy.D. rather than the Ph.D.), if that was the OP's goal and her state licenses MSW's, then she could enter that career more quickly and more cheaply with an MSW. The OP didn't say anything about wanting to work as a clinical psychologist in an institutional setting.

Not sure I get your JD/government reference.

[psychgrad816]

Ideagirl, I think that what daurousseau is saying is that "clinical psychology" and "counseling psychology" are technically different fields within psychology, with different degrees. As I understand it (and I might be wrong because I'm not in clinical/counseling psych), clinical psychologists tend to work with abnormal populations, while counseling psychologists tend not to. I believe that one can get a Psy.D in clinical or counseling psychology, and that one can be a professional counselor with a masters degree.

For example: http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_73.asp

Edit: On second read, it looks like you get the distinction. Nevermind :)

[returningstudentat50]

Womanofproperty, You have no idea how much you've helped me with your comments.  I was about to get into enormous debt and that is something I don't want to do now. 

thank you all for helping me.  I live in Los Angeles area.
Let me see if I can articulate.  I just want something to do for the remainder of my life, (an actual career) that helps others, that's not too stressful, and that pays $40 - 60K per year.   That's all.  I'm thinking M.A. in something in Mental Health, or ABA Psychology or even school counseling.  What do you think?  Any ideas?