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[drpud]

My partner and I are in a pickle and trying to decide what to do. First, we both have loads of credit card and student loan debt (like $100,000). Second, we have a toddler.

Situation: My partner has a permanent academic job at a good University in Europe. I followed hu to Europe the same month that I graduated with my own PhD in the US in a field that is in low demand everywhere, especially at the moment. I was willing to follow because we had a child, need money, and thought it would be fun. Alas, we are having a hard time surviving here because we have so many US bills and not enough money to pay them, in any currency. There are no adjunct jobs for me here and the small city we live in affords very little prospects for a humanities PhD other than secretarial work. I'd be willing to commute but there are no advertised positions in my field anywhere near where we live (within an 8 hour commuting radius).

So, we're starting to realize this was not the best move for us, financially or professionally, particularly in my case. We're also really depressed that it hasn't worked out so far and we can't seem to get our heads above water or make the right decision.

Here is my actual conundrum, though: My partner has received a good job offer at a Univ. in Australia. They don't do spousal hires there but have offered me a 6 month initial contract which can be renewed A) if I demonstrate that I'm not a freak show and B) if funding permits. (The ifs are a bit worrying). They have no one in either my main field or sub-field so there will probably be adjunct work for me, and they have said they plan to do searches in the next year in my general field, but the question is, should we make another international move without two permanent positions lined up? We just can't decide. Hu has tons of family members in Australia, who would be really helpful and thrilled to have us nearby, but we'd still have to deal with new start-up costs (finding a flat to rent, buying a car, etc.) in another country. And my family lives in the US so we'd still have travel expenses.

The other option is to stay where we are in Europe and both go back on the US job market in the fall and hope at least one of us gets a job in a decent area with job prospects nearby for the other person. Things are not looking so good for academic positions in the US in the near future, however, so we are totally unsure what our next move should be. Should we go with the bird in hand or wait and see what 2009-2010 brings? I would feel better about myself if I landed a job on my own merit but also don't want to split up our little family and have the three of us living in separate countries or states. Living apart wouldn't save us any money in the long run, either. We're dealing with pretty bad poverty and that is our #1 problem at the moment and even more important than my dignity as the trailing partner, unfortunately.

What would you do?? Thanks for any thoughts.

[jackalope]

What fields are you in?

[drpud]

We're both in history.

[bacardiandlime]

If you moved to Australia, and a job DIDN'T come through for you after the initial 6 months, would you be better/worse off financially than you are now? Have you compared tax rates with Australia with where you are now?
Read some of the threads on the 'Teaching Overseas' section.

[drpud]

We've done the tax crunching and, with the recent Australian tax code reforms, we'd technically have a bit more money than we do now even if I was unemployed. But, the goal is for both of us to have gainful and meaningful employment somewhere so we can pay bills, save, and move up the academic ladder, so to speak. Anywhere would do! (Well, maybe not anywhere, but you get the idea.) I don't want to move again unless I think we can at least work towards medium-to-long-term dual career improvement. It os basically just hard to know what to do in these times of global economic woe.

[expatinuk]

We've done the tax crunching and, with the recent Australian tax code reforms, we'd technically have a bit more money than we do now even if I was unemployed. But, the goal is for both of us to have gainful and meaningful employment somewhere so we can pay bills, save, and move up the academic ladder, so to speak. Anywhere would do! (Well, maybe not anywhere, but you get the idea.) I don't want to move again unless I think we can at least work towards medium-to-long-term dual career improvement. It os basically just hard to know what to do in these times of global economic woe.

What you WANT is what everyone in a dual career family wants. You have to also be realistic and face the facts that you're both in an over supplied field where employers can pick and choose and the chances are good that one of you isn't always going to be the one chosen. You can live in different countries, different states, or on different planets ... but you'll still face the situation where it's going to be extremely difficult to both get TT jobs at the same university.

I'm NOT trying to be nasty... or mean... but to get you to face the facts and to start thinking about other areas where you CAN have a meaningful career and still be with your family.

[neutralname]

It's a very difficult decision.  Australia is a long way away, and that makes a psychological and practical difference with being separated from the rest of one's family.  I've got some relatives (non-academics) who have gone over there for a few years and loved it.  Some have returned, some have stayed.  US and UK academics I have known have tended to be less willing to stay over there -- especially in recent years when there has been financial difficulty in departments like history, and pressure to find funding.  I know a number of people who hold joint appointments, split between the US and Australia, or between the UK and Australia.  It means a lot of traveling, but they do it. 

Personally I would not be willing to move all the way to Australia, because the difficulty of being so far from friends and family would be too much.  And I wouldn't like to be split between two continents.  But that's a very personal decision. 

Regarding your career options, and risking your future by going there -- we don't really have enough info.  Really you need advice from someone who knows the particular dept and city you are talking about.  But my impression is that Australian academics are a tightly-knit lot who all know each other in their particular areas of expertise, so if you have any connections over there, you should be able to get some help.

[hegemony]

It sounds to me like Australia is a good deal.  You already have contacts over there and a partial support system.  Your husband has a good job offer and you have at least the start of one.  The worst that can happen is that you end up with no job after an initial period, but I'm guessing there are more possibilities within an eight-hour radius than in your current situation.  The job market is pretty iffy in the U.S. and if you decide not to go to Australia, you could well end up in your current situation for another year or several years, and your current situation sounds stressful and demoralizing.  If Australia isn't a good fit after you've tried it out, you're just as able to apply for American jobs at that point, plus you'll have some extra experience on your CV.  As I see it, the only down side is the upheaval of moving, but it sounds as if you'll have to move in the near future anyway if you want to improve your situation.  Do see if you can get some moving compensation from the university you're going to, or, at the very least, if there are some tax breaks for a move to a new job as there are in the U.S.  Best of luck!

[bacardiandlime]

It sounds to me like Australia is a good deal.  You already have contacts over there and a partial support system.  Your husband has a good job offer and you have at least the start of one.  The worst that can happen is that you end up with no job after an initial period, but I'm guessing there are more possibilities within an eight-hour radius than in your current situation.  The job market is pretty iffy in the U.S. and if you decide not to go to Australia, you could well end up in your current situation for another year or several years, and your current situation sounds stressful and demoralizing.  If Australia isn't a good fit after you've tried it out, you're just as able to apply for American jobs at that point, plus you'll have some extra experience on your CV.  As I see it, the only down side is the upheaval of moving, but it sounds as if you'll have to move in the near future anyway if you want to improve your situation.  Do see if you can get some moving compensation from the university you're going to, or, at the very least, if there are some tax breaks for a move to a new job as there are in the U.S.  Best of luck!

On the first point, I'm not sure we can conclude that for the OP. I'm not sure where in Europe s/he is, but I'm sure that wherever that city is, there are more universities within an 8 hour radius than most places in Australia.

On the second, just a warning, it is possible to 'price yourself out of the market' by being at the wrong end of a very expensive flight for interviews. Especially in a flooded market like history, a lot of places, even if they would stretch to flying someone in from Europe, are going to balk at doing so from Australia. So if your goal is to go back to the US job market, stay in Europe. It's still pricey, but it's possible to keep yourself on the conference circuit and 'within reach' in a way that - on an academic salary - it really isn't from Australia.

[jackalope]

Hmmm....I guess Australia sounds the better of the two. But really with 100k in debt (each?) one of you needs to develop a better-paying career than a historian.

[msparticularity]

Just another puzzle piece here--with two of you and a small child I think medical care/costs ought to be a big part of your calculation. At this point, frankly, you're likely better off anywhere besides the U.S.

[notaprof]

If you are making Australian dollars and paying debt in some other currency (US or Euros), you may be digging yourself an even bigger hole with fluctuations in exchange rates.

Saturday, January 24, 2009
1 US Dollar = 1.53650 Australian Dollar
1 Euro =  1.98403 Australian Dollar

Thursday, January 24, 2008
1 US Dollar = 1.15294 Australian Dollar
1 Euro = 1.68368 Australian Dollar

Who knows which way things will go and paying off $100,000 in debt is bound to see lots of ups and downs. 

[drpud]

Thanks for all of your responses. We appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
What I get from reading this thread is that our situation at the moment really seems like a mixed bag, which is exactly what we think and why we've been indecisive thus far. Australia is a far flight from the US--family, friends, conferences, libraries, etc. would be in reach but only once a year. That would be fine with us if we thought we could get ahead career-wise and make career connections in Australia. My partner knows a lot of Aussie academics but I don't know any and would have to hit the ground running in order to insinuate myself into their tight knit community.
When I said there were no jobs for me within an 8 hour radius of our current location, I meant that none of the nearby (as in 2-8 hours distance by train) Universities have advertised in my field over the past 8 months. We live in a fairly remote place by European standards and even if I were to find a position, we would have to have two separate residences, at least during the week.
Ultimately, I would like to return to the US. But after reading the "Two-Body Problem" forum we both feel pretty disheartened about our prospects there, too. We are both R1 material (I'm just a couple years behind hu), but I'd happily take a so-called mid-tier job in order for us to both have meaningful careers and live in the same region.
Anyway, thanks again. We're still undecided!!

[drpud]

Last Note:

My main concern is that I might shoot myself in the foot, so to speak, on the US market if we move to Australia and all I can find over the next 2-3 years is adjunct work. Even if I have proven research potential in the form of articles, an edited collection, a book contract with a good press, etc. by then, would a US university even bother with an adjunct working in Australia?? Hard to know . . .

I'd be able to be in states during the entire interview season b/c it would be summer in Oz, but they'd still have to worry about my relocation costs when there are hundreds of other eager historians willing to move on the cheap from nearby.

[mischt]

I think the point about the proximity within Europe of many universities is a really good one. I know several people who live here in Berlin and commute to jobs all over Great Britain (easyjet/ryanair etc) and throughout Germany (Deutsche Bahn rail service). It is pretty normal - this is something that you maybe should be considering. There are increasing numbers of post docs being made available to non-German speakers at university based research centres in Germany. You should maybe expand your perspective on what is available to you in Europe.
And institutions DO pay for you to be flown to the US for job interviews - you are too far away yet!