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[bbgee]

so i am applying for phd this year and i'm still uncertain if i have the slightest chance of getting in. my question is whether an "alternative" type of student which i consider myself can get in a phd program.

i didn't do undergrad in the US. I graduated with a BA at 20 from a good university in my home country but low GPA (a 2.9), since i wasn't interested in the doctrinal system of education and wasn't reciting textbooks, among other things. for all i know i always wanted an intellectual education and i was extremely disappointed with what i had to study and what i couldn't study in undergrad. and the system in my home country wasn't at all flexible that you can neither transfer nor change majors after enrollment.... i worked however during college and was doing very well as a freelance writer in the city. i had publications and did stuff in the arts that was interesting and impressive. but i'm not really sure those count for admission merits.

i'm doing a master's now in a state university in the US. i'm still young being 22. and...to make things worse i have a very mediocre GRE score (a 580 V and a 4.5 AW. i'm not a native speaker and well i didn't try hard enough to recite a dictionary i suppose). i do want to be a scholar and the work i've done can prove that, when my gpas and gres and non-ivy league degrees might say just the opposite. my application seems to myself kinda paradoxical. now i'm kind of anxious that it will just get thrown out before even making it to the department. (oops).

i wonder what people here think of my chance. .i already pretty much assume that i have no chance but any hope will be good for me....

[sciencephd]

Any particular field ? 

[bewilderedta]

If you do well in the MA program I would imagine you'd have a good shot at getting into a PhD program (assuming it's the same field). You might want to retake the GRE, though.

You don't mention whether or not you have become interested in/reconciled with the "doctrinal system of education" and your statement "well i didn't try hard enough to recite a dictionary i suppose" makes me wonder though - you seem to have a bit of scorn for higher ed in general. Do you really think you'd be happy working in it?

[svenc]

A good GPA in the MA program can go a long way to making up for a mediocre undergrad GPA.  Poor GREs are a problem for any program that values them highly (this is both field- and institution-dependent).  You can retake the GREs, and should spend some time in properly preparing for them.  Good preparation can make a huge difference, and for some people the commercial test-prep services can make an amazing difference.

However, poor written communication skills (in your statement and other application correspondence) will be the kiss of death for your application.  If you can do better than in your last post, please use proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar here.  If you can not, you will have trouble convincing most graduate programs of your potential.

[bbgee]

sorry i was posting really quick this morning.

I am doing a mfa (and yeah i have decent gpa). i'm not changing fields, and no i don't have a problem with higher ed per se (otherwise i won't be here asking these questions. I like my mfa program. As of my undergrad....if you went there you would agree with me). But the title being what it is already says that I'm not or wasn't a straight A student type. My question is really whether experiences can take more weight in the admission process when "hardwares" are less than spectacular, or, whether phd is only for straight A students with 750+ verbal scores.   

anyway. thanks for all your advices. didn't mean to sound snarky here. I'm well aware of my weaknesses and would love to change them if i'm able to...

[nerdmom]

at 22 I don't really think you can have all that much in the way of non-school experiences (even if you worked since 17 or so part-time during school), so I would imagine your MA grades and GRE will matter more than someone who I would really consider "alternative" - older with work or other non-school experience.

[scheherazade]

Is part of your alternative identity the refusal to use standard English and, say, the shift key in your posts?

Also - and I'm going to be really blunt - you seem to have a lot of excuses.  For example:

so i am applying for phd this year and i'm still uncertain if i have the slightest chance of getting in. my question is whether an "alternative" type of student which i consider myself can get in a phd program.

i didn't do undergrad in the US. I graduated with a BA at 20 from a good university in my home country but low GPA (a 2.9), since i wasn't interested in the doctrinal system of education and wasn't reciting textbooks, among other things. for all i know i always wanted an intellectual education and i was extremely disappointed with what i had to study and what i couldn't study in undergrad. and the system in my home country wasn't at all flexible that you can neither transfer nor change majors after enrollment....

and...to make things worse i have a very mediocre GRE score (a 580 V and a 4.5 AW. i'm not a native speaker and well i didn't try hard enough to recite a dictionary i suppose).

I'm well aware of my weaknesses and would love to change them if i'm able to...

Lots of us have taken the hard road, but it's tough to improve if you continue to make excuses for why you did poorly at X, Y, and Z.  Instead of listing all the reasons why you failed to do well that were out of your control or "unreasonable", consider that lots of other people manage to do these things.  Then figure out how to change your attitude and fix the problem.  Successful people do not make excuses for why they failed.  They find the problem within themselves, solve it, and try again.

Even if you get into a PhD program, you will not be successful if you continue this pattern.  Professors will require things of you, too, and they will not be flexible in their requests.  They will have high expectations, and they will not change them for your varying circumstances.  Grad school is no easier than undergrad in those respects.  You absolutely must change your perception of your failures.  You could have studied more for the GRE.  You could have worked harder during your undergrad, even if the things you were required to do were not your favorite.  You say you are stil not a "straight A" student in your MA program, yet most people in grad programs have a high GPA, which means you're still underperforming.  Improve if you're able?  Everyone is able to improve if they try hard and are honest with themselves.  Good luck.

[bbgee]

i don't see why some of you are judging me without knowing me. i'm not asking for criticism here (thanks anyway though), and i'm not excusing myself. i'm asking questions! i have my personal reason not to capitalize the first letter of any words. a few literary figures did so. and i can't see why this is related to academic excellency (it's pretty obvious i did it on purpose, and no i don't do that in application letters). i said i'm not a straight A student TYPE. I didn't say I'm not straight A, or almost straight A at grad school. and all these are related to my questions of "alternative type" (not limited to myself).

i'm not going to specify what experiences i do have here (to assume that one can't have good outside experience at 22 is kind of naive for this century isn't it). what i meant by "improve if i'm able to" was that i'm not able to improve my undergrad gpa anymore as much as i would like to, and no time for gre at this point either. i would rather working on things that go beyond the point of showing I'm capable from a piece of paper. we all know too many people who can write well with perfect grammar and no flair.

(oops i'm excusing myself again!)

[sciencephd]

you're right you have no chance.  try somthing else.

[scheherazade]

Using standard English is a rule on these academic fora.  You may have personal reasons, but you cannot do it here.

To add: You cannot ask for advice and refuse criticism.  That's the way of things.  Accepting criticism, however, uncomfortable it may be, is how one improves oneself.

[kedves]

my question is whether an "alternative" type of student which i consider myself can get in a phd program

.

My answer is:  No, I doubt that a reputable Ph.D. program will accept an "alternative" student of the type which you consider yourself to be.  It seems not to be a good fit.  I suggest that you investigate careers that do not require a Ph.D.

[canadatourismguy]

If you have to ask....

CTG

[prytania3]

i don't see why some of you are judging me without knowing me. i'm not asking for criticism here (thanks anyway though), and i'm not excusing myself. i'm asking questions! i have my personal reason not to capitalize the first letter of any words. a few literary figures did so. and i can't see why this is related to academic excellency (it's pretty obvious i did it on purpose, and no i don't do that in application letters). i said i'm not a straight A student TYPE. I didn't say I'm not straight A, or almost straight A at grad school. and all these are related to my questions of "alternative type" (not limited to myself).

i'm not going to specify what experiences i do have here (to assume that one can't have good outside experience at 22 is kind of naive for this century isn't it). what i meant by "improve if i'm able to" was that i'm not able to improve my undergrad gpa anymore as much as i would like to, and no time for gre at this point either. i would rather working on things that go beyond the point of showing I'm capable from a piece of paper. we all know too many people who can write well with perfect grammar and no flair.

(oops i'm excusing myself again!)

You're being a cliche. You're thinking you're all different and "alternative" as evidenced by your lack of standard capitalization and punctuation. You think you are a genius with flair who is above the rules of grammer.

*yawn*

i would rather working on things that go beyond the point of showing I'm capable from a piece of paper.

What the hell does that mean? You want to make sculptures?

[bacardiandlime]

Perhaps this poster should meet replant.

[ideagirl]

so i am applying for phd this year and i'm still uncertain if i have the slightest chance of getting in. my question is whether an "alternative" type of student which i consider myself can get in a phd program.

i didn't do undergrad in the US. I graduated with a BA at 20 from a good university in my home country but low GPA (a 2.9), since i wasn't interested in the doctrinal system of education and wasn't reciting textbooks, among other things. for all i know i always wanted an intellectual education and i was extremely disappointed with what i had to study and what i couldn't study in undergrad. and the system in my home country wasn't at all flexible that you can neither transfer nor change majors after enrollment....
i'm doing a master's now in a state university in the US. i'm still young being 22. and...to make things worse i have a very mediocre GRE score (a 580 V and a 4.5 AW. i'm not a native speaker and well i didn't try hard enough to recite a dictionary i suppose). i do want to be a scholar and the work i've done can prove that, when my gpas and gres and non-ivy league degrees might say just the opposite.

I know where you're coming from: I also did undergrad in another country with a similarly inflexible system, and came out with a 2.9 GPA (which is actually not bad--it's not great, but it's not as bad as a US 2.9, because grade inflation hadn't struck the country I was in). However, unlike you, I aced the GRE. (Also unlike you, I freely admit that the GPA was not The System's fault but my own fault--I goofed off too much.)

With a great recent GRE and mediocre, much less recent foreign grades, you should be fine. So, to put it simply, you need to fix your GRE. That probably means you need to pay for private tutoring--unless you have incredible self-discipline, that is. What I would suggest is getting all the usual books, and a lot of copies of past GRE tests, and buckle down for 4-6 weeks to study and do practice exams under real conditions (i.e. timed, non-stop test-taking). If you can greatly improve your score that way, then sign up for the GRE and keep on studying the same way until the test day. But if you can't greatly improve your score that way, then you will need private tutoring.

BTW, what's your GPA in the US master's program?