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[carebearstare]

You might love mid-tier school.

Or I might hate mid-tier school, and always wonder if I could have launched my career at a top-notch program.  And I can't help feeling disappointed about our current situation:  I've slaved away for 6 years to move to a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere?  And isn't this exactly how female scientists end up leaking out of the pipeline towards highly successful research careers?  You are definitely right that I may very well not get any offers from the better schools ... but I am bummed not to get the chance to find out.

I understand what you mean, and I empathize with your desire to find out what your options are. I do think, also, that women often get the short end of the stick and have historically been disenfranchised career-wise, and that this is likely only going to get harder, especially if you decide to have kids. (Maybe you do already?) But I think the cliche is right here--marriage/relationships are about sacrifice. Something's got to give someplace. Any decision you make may be laced with regret, but that's the nature of life. What many of us here are cautioning you against is letting that regret (which we all have about various decisions we make) turn into resentment. No matter what you decide, don't let that happen.

No one needs to tell you how competitive and draining the academic life can be, no matter where you land. It really does make a big difference to have a content home life to fall back on. Whatever decision you end up making, don't sacrifice that.

I was in a similar situation last year on the market, deciding between an R1 and a lower-ranked school. I ended up at the lower ranked school, and sometimes still wonder what could have happened. But no job is permanent, necessarily. And having my SO be happy and employed where we're living means so much more. Not enough to erase the "what if?" but enough to make me happy with what is.

[newgrad09]

Wow--you are bitter already.

Not permanently bitter ... just having moments of frustration with the whole of academia.  'prytania3' and 'the_scene':  you are right that more prestigious jobs aren't necessarily better jobs, and that living in the same state as a happy spouse makes for a happier life.  I just have to let things sink in...

Is anyone else in this position?  Having to get used to the gap between fantasy situation and the reality?

[johnr]

You might love mid-tier school.

Or I might hate mid-tier school, and always wonder if I could have launched my career at a top-notch program.  And I can't help feeling disappointed about our current situation:  I've slaved away for 6 years to move to a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere?  And isn't this exactly how female scientists end up leaking out of the pipeline towards highly successful research careers?  You are definitely right that I may very well not get any offers from the better schools ... but I am bummed not to get the chance to find out.

I still don't understand why you don't at least interview, even after your spouse accepts the position at "mediocre school".  Perhaps one of the reasons that some women "leak out of the pipeline" is that they are not ruthless enough about their own career? If you say yes to one place, and then get a better offer at a better place (for you and your spouse), then go.  If the mediocre school doesn't want you to leave, then they'll make you an offer that you can't refuse.   

[scheherazade]

You might love mid-tier school.

Or I might hate mid-tier school, and always wonder if I could have launched my career at a top-notch program.  And I can't help feeling disappointed about our current situation:  I've slaved away for 6 years to move to a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere?  And isn't this exactly how female scientists end up leaking out of the pipeline towards highly successful research careers?  You are definitely right that I may very well not get any offers from the better schools ... but I am bummed not to get the chance to find out.

I still don't understand why you don't at least interview, even after your spouse accepts the position at "mediocre school".  Perhaps one of the reasons that some women "leak out of the pipeline" is that they are not ruthless enough about their own career? If you say yes to one place, and then get a better offer at a better place (for you and your spouse), then go.  If the mediocre school doesn't want you to leave, then they'll make you an offer that you can't refuse.   

This isn't done, and it's bad form.  This issue has been beaten to death before.  If you are willing to be unethical, go right ahead, but don't recommend it to others.

[offthemarket]

This issue has been beat to death before.  In summary, there are various consequences of reneging on a signed contract.  There is a very remote possibility of legal action, and it is very likely that your reputation would be damaged.  A majority on the fora (not including myself) feel that it is very unethical to not show up for a contracted job.  Others (including myself) would be reluctant to sneak out of a contract but ultimately you need to look out for the interests of yourself and your family, because by golly employers don't.  From there, the argument ensues.

[canadia]

like Eddie Said huge.

I read this and thought... "Eddie would go." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Aikau

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the following: how will either schools that have offered the spousal line support your research goals? If the teaching and service loads are brutal, then the 2 of you are stuck there. If they allow for a sustainable and productive research agenda, then you can move on from there.

Last year my partner turned down a mid-tier, cush job in the hopes of landing an R1 and eventually got the R1.

And now is constantly thinking "what if"...

You may hold out and get a prestigious job, and while your partner is adjuncting and you're beyond stressed out, you may sit back and ponder "what if"...

[jackalope]

Is anyone else in this position?  Having to get used to the gap between fantasy situation and the reality?

We are all in that position. It is called life and is full of compromise.

[ideagirl]

Is anyone else in this position?  Having to get used to the gap between fantasy situation and the reality?

We are all in that position. It is called life and is full of compromise.

Heehee. Haha. How beautifully succinct.

[powderfinger]

A couple thoughts...

1. If you have decided that accepting the mid-tier school is better than rejecting it, then it is obviously best to first call up the SCC at any of the top places at which you have interviewed by that point and inform them of the situation, at least giving them the opportunity to make you and your spouse an offer.  They will probably listen to what you have to say and then tell you that its been nice knowing you, but there is nothing to lose.

2. If you can instigate a protracted bidding process between the two mid-tiers, that may actually buy you more time.  Perhaps you can convince them that they are just competing with each other and use the competition as a way to get the deadline extended?

3. As others have said, relationships involve compromises and compromises create consequences.  In most cases, compromises that involve highly prioritizing one career over another (one person top R1 TT, one adjunct for example) have the most damaging consequences for relationships.

[johnr]

You might love mid-tier school.

Or I might hate mid-tier school, and always wonder if I could have launched my career at a top-notch program.  And I can't help feeling disappointed about our current situation:  I've slaved away for 6 years to move to a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere?  And isn't this exactly how female scientists end up leaking out of the pipeline towards highly successful research careers?  You are definitely right that I may very well not get any offers from the better schools ... but I am bummed not to get the chance to find out.

I still don't understand why you don't at least interview, even after your spouse accepts the position at "mediocre school".  Perhaps one of the reasons that some women "leak out of the pipeline" is that they are not ruthless enough about their own career? If you say yes to one place, and then get a better offer at a better place (for you and your spouse), then go.  If the mediocre school doesn't want you to leave, then they'll make you an offer that you can't refuse.   

This isn't done, and it's bad form.  This issue has been beaten to death before.  If you are willing to be unethical, go right ahead, but don't recommend it to others.

Oh don't be ridiculous, of course it's done. And of course it's bad form.  At what point is it no longer "bad form" to leave one job for another?  And I apologize, I wasn't aware that you were appointed the arbiter of ethics on this forum.  I must have missed the vote.   Should we submit all of our comments to you before we post them? 

[scheherazade]

You might love mid-tier school.

Or I might hate mid-tier school, and always wonder if I could have launched my career at a top-notch program.  And I can't help feeling disappointed about our current situation:  I've slaved away for 6 years to move to a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere?  And isn't this exactly how female scientists end up leaking out of the pipeline towards highly successful research careers?  You are definitely right that I may very well not get any offers from the better schools ... but I am bummed not to get the chance to find out.

I still don't understand why you don't at least interview, even after your spouse accepts the position at "mediocre school".  Perhaps one of the reasons that some women "leak out of the pipeline" is that they are not ruthless enough about their own career? If you say yes to one place, and then get a better offer at a better place (for you and your spouse), then go.  If the mediocre school doesn't want you to leave, then they'll make you an offer that you can't refuse.   

This isn't done, and it's bad form.  This issue has been beaten to death before.  If you are willing to be unethical, go right ahead, but don't recommend it to others.

Oh don't be ridiculous, of course it's done. And of course it's bad form.  At what point is it no longer "bad form" to leave one job for another?  And I apologize, I wasn't aware that you were appointed the arbiter of ethics on this forum.  I must have missed the vote.   Should we submit all of our comments to you before we post them? 

Please do.  I'll have my response back to you within two weeks.

[spectacle]

You might love mid-tier school.

Or I might hate mid-tier school, and always wonder if I could have launched my career at a top-notch program.  And I can't help feeling disappointed about our current situation:  I've slaved away for 6 years to move to a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere?  And isn't this exactly how female scientists end up leaking out of the pipeline towards highly successful research careers?  You are definitely right that I may very well not get any offers from the better schools ... but I am bummed not to get the chance to find out.

I still don't understand why you don't at least interview, even after your spouse accepts the position at "mediocre school".  Perhaps one of the reasons that some women "leak out of the pipeline" is that they are not ruthless enough about their own career? If you say yes to one place, and then get a better offer at a better place (for you and your spouse), then go.  If the mediocre school doesn't want you to leave, then they'll make you an offer that you can't refuse.   

This isn't done, and it's bad form.  This issue has been beaten to death before.  If you are willing to be unethical, go right ahead, but don't recommend it to others.

Oh don't be ridiculous, of course it's done. And of course it's bad form.  At what point is it no longer "bad form" to leave one job for another?  And I apologize, I wasn't aware that you were appointed the arbiter of ethics on this forum.  I must have missed the vote.   Should we submit all of our comments to you before we post them? 

I think her spouse could really jeopardize his relationship with Mid-Tier U right out the gate if they tried to pull something like this.

So Spouse accepts, with the trailing position for OP, then OP interviews at Top-Tier U and starts a counter-offer after they've accepted the original positions?  Top-Tier U will be annoyed that they're playing both sides of the field, and Mid-Tier U will probably be irate that they're still negotiating with another school after they've signed contracts.

I feel like something like this could really backfire.  If their field is small, they could get reputations for being divas or worse.  That doesn't seem like a good way to start a relationship with a new employer, to me.

OP, I agree with others who have suggested calling the schools you're waiting on and being honest... "we have other offers with trailing positions but I'd like to know where you are in your decision-making process before accepting..." something honest and diplomatic.  Others probably have more experienced advice on the wording.

[newgrad09]

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the following: how will either schools that have offered the spousal line support your research goals? If the teaching and service loads are brutal, then the 2 of you are stuck there. If they allow for a sustainable and productive research agenda, then you can move on from there.

It is very discouraging how schools use the spousal hire issue as leverage to reduce research support.  One school has offered us levels of start-up research support that are really insufficient for our needs, and minimal teaching reductions, which they justify because they gave us a spousal hire.  I think not being "stuck" anywhere is a really important consideration. 

[carebearstare]

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the following: how will either schools that have offered the spousal line support your research goals? If the teaching and service loads are brutal, then the 2 of you are stuck there. If they allow for a sustainable and productive research agenda, then you can move on from there.

It is very discouraging how schools use the spousal hire issue as leverage to reduce research support.  One school has offered us levels of start-up research support that are really insufficient for our needs, and minimal teaching reductions, which they justify because they gave us a spousal hire.  I think not being "stuck" anywhere is a really important consideration. 

What do you expect? A department was on the market for one person and they got two. Even the most well-funded schools have limited resources. Especially now.

You should definitely at least ask if there will options for more funding in years to come, but a spousal hire IS a major benefit to both of you, and you should be really grateful. Many people can't negotiate these at all, and end up living hours of driving or a plane ride away from their partners.

Frankly, your whining is getting irritating. Either you behave selfishly and likely screw your spouse's options or you don't. End of story. Make the phone calls you need to make and then make a decision like an adult. You are not unique for having to deal with a hard decision--which, frankly, is still largely speculation since you have no job offer save for those your spouse has finagled for you.

[johnr]

What do you expect? A department was on the market for one person and they got two. Even the most well-funded schools have limited resources. Especially now.

You should definitely at least ask if there will options for more funding in years to come, but a spousal hire IS a major benefit to both of you, and you should be really grateful. Many people can't negotiate these at all, and end up living hours of driving or a plane ride away from their partners.

Frankly, your whining is getting irritating. Either you behave selfishly and likely screw your spouse's options or you don't. End of story. Make the phone calls you need to make and then make a decision like an adult. You are not unique for having to deal with a hard decision--which, frankly, is still largely speculation since you have no job offer save for those your spouse has finagled for you.

I would have said the exact same thing but I've made a pariah out of myself on this thread I didn't want to wait two weeks for shehezerade to vet my comments.