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[mouseman]

Respect is always something to be continually earned based on your demonstrated and ongoing expertise.

Yeah, when I meet a Nobel Prize winner, my first questions is, "So, what have you done lately."

Reminds of the Reasons God wouldn't get tenure:

1. He published only one book.
2. It was in Hebrew.
3. It had no references.
4. He did not publish it in referenced journals.
5. Some doubt He even wrote it Himself.
6. He is not known for His cooperative work
7. Sure, He created the world, but what has He done lately?
8. He did not get permission from any review board to work with human subjects.
9. When one experiment went awry, He tried to cover it up by drowning all the subjects.
10. When sample subjects do not behave as predicted, He deletes the whole sample.
11. He rarely comes to class - and just tells His students to read the Book.
12. It is rumored that He sometimes lets His Son teach the class.
13. Although He only has 10 requirements, students often fail His tests.
14. He expelled His first two students for learning.
15. His office hours were infrequent and usually held on a mountain top.

[papaya]

Respect is always something to be continually earned based on your demonstrated and ongoing expertise.

Yeah, when I meet a Nobel Prize winner, my first questions is, "So, what have you done lately."

Reminds of the Reasons God wouldn't get tenure:

1. He published only one book.
2. It was in Hebrew.
3. It had no references.
4. He did not publish it in referenced journals.
5. Some doubt He even wrote it Himself.
6. He is not known for His cooperative work
7. Sure, He created the world, but what has He done lately?
8. He did not get permission from any review board to work with human subjects.
9. When one experiment went awry, He tried to cover it up by drowning all the subjects.
10. When sample subjects do not behave as predicted, He deletes the whole sample.
11. He rarely comes to class - and just tells His students to read the Book.
12. It is rumored that He sometimes lets His Son teach the class.
13. Although He only has 10 requirements, students often fail His tests.
14. He expelled His first two students for learning.
15. His office hours were infrequent and usually held on a mountain top.

Absolutely hilarious!! Love it.  Someone please put this in the HOF---I don't know how to do it myself!

[mouseman]

Respect is always something to be continually earned based on your demonstrated and ongoing expertise.

Yeah, when I meet a Nobel Prize winner, my first questions is, "So, what have you done lately."

Reminds of the Reasons God wouldn't get tenure:

1. He published only one book.
2. It was in Hebrew.
3. It had no references.
4. He did not publish it in referenced journals.
5. Some doubt He even wrote it Himself.
6. He is not known for His cooperative work
7. Sure, He created the world, but what has He done lately?
8. He did not get permission from any review board to work with human subjects.
9. When one experiment went awry, He tried to cover it up by drowning all the subjects.
10. When sample subjects do not behave as predicted, He deletes the whole sample.
11. He rarely comes to class - and just tells His students to read the Book.
12. It is rumored that He sometimes lets His Son teach the class.
13. Although He only has 10 requirements, students often fail His tests.
14. He expelled His first two students for learning.
15. His office hours were infrequent and usually held on a mountain top.

Absolutely hilarious!! Love it.  Someone please put this in the HOF---I don't know how to do it myself!

It's not really HoF material - it's not my own, it has been floating around for years.  Glad you liked it, though :-D

[bread_pirate_naan]

Why is that people in this venue often insist on reading between the lines?

Between the lines?  Puleeze.  Read on, friends, read on.

Some of you are just plain rude.

Really now.

I show complete respect for my professors at all times.

I often think a professor here or there doesn't know what they are doing.

It's hard to take some of these people seriously when they have not looked in the mirror in about 20 years. That's just the professors. The students are even worse.

I just started a course where the professor wants us to call her "Julie". She did acknowledge that it was still an unequal relationship, but that it would help us get use to dealing on a more equal footing with other scholars. I don't buy it.

BTW, when some one says "call me Julie" and you call them "Dr. Professor," you are disrespecting their wishes.  Actually, you are disobeying an instruction.  Not a sign of respect in the slightest.  The opposite.

I am having no political problems. Neither do I lack advocates.

Yet you needed to come to the fora to choose an advisor. 

I am doing this because I care and love IDEAS not because I care about TITLES.

I think professors should be called Dr. or professor and they should call me Ms. Amazona. Mutual respect is what is important. Does anybody attend a school where  students are called Mr or Ms?

On the other hand, some of you get quite a bit of pleasure out of titles and hierarchy. 

"they should call me Ms. Amazona."

Respect is always something to be continually earned based on your demonstrated and ongoing expertise.

Your ideas about "respect" doesn't seem to have convinced anyone but jackalope, but I am sure I am not the only one who remembers some of these moments from your prior posts.  You are also building a cumulative reputation in the same way at your institution. 

You might think about that.

I often think a professor here or there doesn't know what they are doing. They are out of touch, not very good thinkers, or lazy. Mostly I think some can't think and I feel like I could teach the class way better. Is that arrogant or what?

Yes, you are painfully arrogant.  Unbelievably so.  Arrogant.  Disrespectful.  Enough that I am willing to take the time to demonstrate your arrogance and lack of respect for your academic betters, at length, in your very own words.

[zaphod_beeblebrox]

Tenured prof here.  I just got back from the Xmas party, and once again the grad students appeared unwilling to socialize with me, and with the other profs.  Did they feel awkward, somehow?  I don't know, but it seems weird to me.  I am older than them, mostly, but we have a lot in common.  Some of us even have kids the same age.  I would conclude that it was "just me," but the grad students don't talk to ANY of us.  Do we have cooties?  What gives??  Grad students, what's you perspective on these parties?

Think back to when you were in grad school. Did you feel at ease with your professors, especially in a social setting? Of course they feel awkward!

Even if you did feel at ease with your professors, the reality is that grad school is pretty intimidating for most grad students. Many recognize the power relationships, know that the faculty are much more powerful, and are incredibly intimidated by the faculty as a result. I would say in your situation that it is quite strange that you and your colleagues did not make the effort to engage the grad students. In an unequal power relationship, such as the one that exists between profs and grad students, it is generally up to the person who holds more power to initiate interaction, especially in a situation that is out of the norm (i.e., holiday party, when most interaction occurs on a strictly professional level).

I feel uncomfortable starting a conversation with a professor when the situation is outside of our normal, professional interaction. I worry that I might say something wrong, broach the wrong topic, offend somehow if the prof thinks it is inappropriate for me to be initiating the conversation, etc. I strongly believe it is up to the professors to begin interaction in these settings, since, because they hold the power anyway, they will be the ones determining the boundaries of any social interaction in the long run.

I do not find it strange at all that the grad students did not take the initiative in socializing with you and your colleagues. I do find it strange that you didn't take into account the intimidation/power relations factors, and that you and your colleagues didn't take initiating interaction upon yourselves.

[polly_mer]

I do not find it strange at all that the grad students did not take the initiative in socializing with you and your colleagues. I do find it strange that you didn't take into account the intimidation/power relations factors, and that you and your colleagues didn't take initiating interaction upon yourselves.

I know that when I was a grad student, I had all I could do to fend off those professors who took initiating interactions upon themselves.

Wait.  What thread is this?  Who am I?  Dang, am I channeling him again?

[reesespeanutbutter]

Isn't the bottom line of all of this that we cluster around those with whom we're most comfortable?  For professors, that will generally be other profs, for grad students it is most certainly other grad students.

[dr_prephd]

It sounds like your department might be full of socially awkward people--both faculty and students. Go out of your comfort zone and talk to some grad. students at the next function. They're looking to you for guidance on how to act.

[didotwite]

May I make a suggestion for the OP?  This is kind of Miss Manners-y, but you can make an active effort to get people talking across barriers at parties.  Get a few people together before the party; three or four usually work, often including the host / hostess.  Do a little "research" about those who are attending, especially those who are new or shy.  Once the party gets going, you gently steer people toward one another who have similar interests:  research, hobbies, geographical origins, whatever.  Unless the group is actively hostile, it's not that difficult to get some conversations going between those who are unfamilar with each other.

My great-aunt used to get the teens and tweens to do this at large family reunions, focusing on new spouses and those who have little contact with one another.  She said that it was really old fashioned, but kept some people from "hiding behind plants being miserable."

Some people do this sort of thing without really thinking about it.   Plenty of forumites must guide new faculty members, for example, over to faculty and administrators at various social events on campus and help them make connections.  My advisor certainly did this for me at my first departmental holiday party.  It's nice to be able to greet people in the halls and make small talk with the professors / students with whom you don't work.  Such gatherings can be used to promote that sort of collegiality. 

Of course, you may not have the time or energy (or desire) for this sort of thing, and I realize that I sound like, well, someone's great aunt.  But in my experience, it really does work with all but the most resistent crowds.   

[autie13]

I actually came to our dept holiday get together late and was forced to sit with professors b/c all of my friends were sitting together and there were no seats left.

It wasn't bad.  I think they knew that I was a little nervous to be talking to them.  They didn't talk about school at all- we talked about the holidays and where we were from.  It was very pleasant.

However, being forced unmercifully to engage in the public humiliation of karaoke was VERY uncomfortable- but, hey, funny!

[mignon]

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, folks.  I do remember being a grad student, and my main opinion, then and now, was/is that hierarchies should not define each and every human interaction.  If they do, we've kind of internalized the bad aspects of our discipline.  I teach Walt Whitman every semester and his lessons are the ones worth internalizing. 

It's all grass, mon.

[zaphod_beeblebrox]

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, folks.  I do remember being a grad student, and my main opinion, then and now, was/is that hierarchies should not define each and every human interaction.  If they do, we've kind of internalized the bad aspects of our discipline.  I teach Walt Whitman every semester and his lessons are the ones worth internalizing. 

It's all grass, mon.

Should and do are two very different things. Hierarchies possibly should not define all interaction, but in fact, they do. It's your responsibility to make the first move, or, if you choose not to, to not be offended by the fact that your grad students are too intimidated to do so.

[perspective]

Interesting topic.  It is really too bad that grad students and profs don't mingle as much.  The few parties I went to in my department were pretty good.  Faculty/grad students mingled pretty well.  I also found those important opportunities to get to know some department faculty teach in your discipline but you haven't had an opportunity to meet.  This is particularly true with newly hired  just awarded junior faculty (who look like they want to get into the grad student group laughing and talking so loudly).

Overall, these gathering can be informative.  It lets you know which faculty members are in high esteem and which ones you want to limit your contact with because the "powers that be," i.e., the chair/dean/etc., do not favor.  Sad, but true alliances are important.  Personally, I limit my interaction to no more than two gatherings, one or two "brown bag" seminars, and that's it.

[profh]

In grad school, I went to a department party with professors, a class of grad students just finishing the program, and my class just entering the program.

There was alcohol, which you would think would help out? Nope.  No one spoke to anyone outside of their "group."

I've noticed this happens at faculty functions at college where I teach now.  Older faculty tend to drift away from those of us under 35.

[mouseman]

In grad school, I went to a department party with professors, a class of grad students just finishing the program, and my class just entering the program.

There was alcohol, which you would think would help out? Nope.  No one spoke to anyone outside of their "group."

I've noticed this happens at faculty functions at college where I teach now.  Older faculty tend to drift away from those of us under 35.

Have you tried mingling with the "older crowd"?   Or with the grads?