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[drspouse]

I've just stumbled across an ad for a post at Warwick which is termed "Assistant Professor".  Out of curiosity I looked at the web page and it has a salary range that must be Lecturer (I can't remember the difference between A and B, if there is one any more) but does not mention that at all.  I wanted to find out what they called other grades of staff but their "Pay and Reward" page is intranet only (spoilsports).

Anyone else come across this elsewhere in the UK? Is it intended to make Warwick look fancy (We have lots of professors!) or part of the move towards semesterisation - taking on the US system in its entirety?

Incidentally, on semesterisation, I have heard that some places are moving back to three terms, or at least back to end-of-year exams from end-of-semester. Anyone come across this?

[britmom]

I seem to remember hearing something about how Warwick had gone all 'American' in job titles. I can't remember the reason why, although the general consensus was that it made the University look pretty daft.

[expatinuk]

I seem to remember hearing something about how Warwick had gone all 'American' in job titles. I can't remember the reason why, although the general consensus was that it made the University look pretty daft.

Yep... so daft that Oxford is now considering doing it.

Fact of the matter is that in most parts of the world a Lecturer is a low academic position and people constantly misunderstand the UK academic ranks.

[scotia]

Anyone else come across this elsewhere in the UK? Is it intended to make Warwick look fancy (We have lots of professors!) or part of the move towards semesterisation - taking on the US system in its entirety?

It is peculiar to Warwick. Everyone else is laughing at them (or, at least, everyone I talk to). I don't think semesterisation comes into it; for some reason they wanted to have the same titles as the American system.

Incidentally, on semesterisation, I have heard that some places are moving back to three terms, or at least back to end-of-year exams from end-of-semester. Anyone come across this?

I have heard the rumors but not actually found anywhere that is doing it. Certainly the semester system has cut down the number of teaching weeks from the 30 I remember (at a Russell Group university) when I started out in this game. I definitely think 30 weeks would be better for the students, and once a year for exams is quite enough for anyone.

[expatinuk]

I have to agree that 12 weeks of teaching is just plain too little. I do like two sets of exams though.

[donstefano]

Warwick plc thinks it is more fancy to use these titles. Exeter also partly switched to ass and assoc prof, the result being that no-one outside the university has a clue what these titles mean. And the readers didn't like it because some of them became assoc prof, just like the former senior lecturers.... So basically that's a step back for them  (although for other they used this change to promote them to professor.
To make things complicated, Birmingham confers the title of associate professor to senior people who have "shown outstanding leadership in teaching, management and administration." Often people who haven't published or done research, but who need to be given some title as a reward to avoid that they retire as lecturer or senior lecturer... The title isn't taken very serious...

[the_walrus]

Warwick plc thinks it is more fancy to use these titles. Exeter also partly switched to ass and assoc prof, the result being that no-one outside the university has a clue what these titles mean. And the readers didn't like it because some of them became assoc prof, just like the former senior lecturers.... So basically that's a step back for them  (although for other they used this change to promote them to professor.
To make things complicated, Birmingham confers the title of associate professor to senior people who have "shown outstanding leadership in teaching, management and administration." Often people who haven't published or done research, but who need to be given some title as a reward to avoid that they retire as lecturer or senior lecturer... The title isn't taken very serious...

What's wrong with retiring as lecturer or senior lecturer?  (Other than the obvious negative financial impact, prestige of being "prof", etc.)

[donstefano]

It's about recognition. To make a distinction between "lazy John who stopped working after he turned 40, and was an unproductive lecturer for the 25 years after that", and "Jim who early on in his career took up very worthwile but not very academic tasks within the university, worked very hard all his life, and as a result never had time to do research, but who is still stuck in the lecturer payscale because he never published enough to be made professor".

[drspouse]

I have to agree that 12 weeks of teaching is just plain too little. I do like two sets of exams though.

Unfortunately my understanding is that long-term retention is significantly lower if exams are end-of-semester instead of end-of-year.

I would hate to have two sets of exams, as our students are incapable of doing anything else for about 2 months either side of the exams, especially their research projects.

[wegie]

I have to agree that 12 weeks of teaching is just plain too little. I do like two sets of exams though.

Unfortunately my understanding is that long-term retention is significantly lower if exams are end-of-semester instead of end-of-year.

Ah. But is that chicken or egg? Pretty much all the places that still work on a year-long calendar are the places at the top end of the Russell Group where the drop-out rate was always in the very low single figures to start with.
 

[hnswst]

We have this at Nottingham. Associate Professor=Senior Lecturer, Assistant Professor=Reader. I don't know whether this is an accurate use of US titles

[expatinuk]

We have this at Nottingham. Associate Professor=Senior Lecturer, Assistant Professor=Reader. I don't know whether this is an accurate use of US titles

That makes no sense.... a Reader is higher than a Senior Lecturer. An Assistant Professor is lower than an Associate Professor.

It's usually:
Lecturer - Assistant Professor
Sr. Lecturer and Reader - Associate Professor
Professor - Full Professor

[tubbs]

I can't remember the difference between A and B, if there is one any more...

I think there is no more A and B since we're baptised by the Framework Agreement.

[drspouse]

I have to agree that 12 weeks of teaching is just plain too little. I do like two sets of exams though.

Unfortunately my understanding is that long-term retention is significantly lower if exams are end-of-semester instead of end-of-year.

Ah. But is that chicken or egg? Pretty much all the places that still work on a year-long calendar are the places at the top end of the Russell Group where the drop-out rate was always in the very low single figures to start with.

I think this is partly based on experimental studies with random assignment of participants to different retention intervals (where they knew there was a test at a certain time point) and partly on pre- and post-change data from the same institution.

Interestingly we are a top-of-2nd-tier regional research institution (our department offers AAB and accepts BBB) and have terms whereas our Very Prestigious And Huge regional no 1 (equivalent department offers AAA at least and probably AAA* if you can) has semesters.

[britmom]

I have to agree that 12 weeks of teaching is just plain too little. I do like two sets of exams though.

Unfortunately my understanding is that long-term retention is significantly lower if exams are end-of-semester instead of end-of-year.

Ah. But is that chicken or egg? Pretty much all the places that still work on a year-long calendar are the places at the top end of the Russell Group where the drop-out rate was always in the very low single figures to start with.

I think this is partly based on experimental studies with random assignment of participants to different retention intervals (where they knew there was a test at a certain time point) and partly on pre- and post-change data from the same institution.

Interestingly we are a top-of-2nd-tier regional research institution (our department offers AAB and accepts BBB) and have terms whereas our Very Prestigious And Huge regional no 1 (equivalent department offers AAA at least and probably AAA* if you can) has semesters.

I'm curious, Drspouse: your use of the term '2nd tier regional' isn't one I've heard being applied to the UK before. Is this a case of placing US categories onto the UK system, or do some people/places also divide British institutions up this way? (And what type of Unviersity would quality as a 2nd tier regional?)