next »

[conjugate]

CP,

This is a good forum to ask this question because, by its very nature, these are teachers who care, as demonstrated by their participation in these fora.
In the general population of faculty, however, I am afraid that conjugate's experience is repeated rather often

I learned how to teach by being given a book and a course outline and a two-day orientation lecture; I prepared and gave an example lecture on the second day.  Then they left me alone until the end of the semester.

Not a good method; it worked with me (I pride myself on good teaching when I have the time to put into it, and make the time when I can) but the school preferred to produce researchers, to whom they said, in essence, "Sorry, but you'll probably have to teach too."

Teaching is rarely, in my experience in R1 institutions, part of the tenure and promotion process. Those TT professors who really care about teaching and really try to improve year to year are to be celebrated! They are not that rare, but in my experience, are not an overwhelming majority, either.

For what it's worth, that institution has since done much more, including requiring a first-year student with no prior teaching experience to assist a more experienced and (hopefully) concerned teacher. 

In the end, there's no substitute for experience, and I don't think that this will change.  At some point, the only way a person can get to be a good teacher is to try that first class, and learn from his or her mistakes.  But good training in advance can certainly minimize the number of, and reduce the severity of, those mistakes. 

[concerned_parent]

Thanks everyone. I am clearer and feel satisfied with the responses

I tried closing this thread but was told by moderator that I can't.
I may not read/respond future replies.

[paul_robeson]

CP,

This is a good forum to ask this question because, by its very nature, these are teachers who care, as demonstrated by their participation in these fora.
In the general population of faculty, however, I am afraid that conjugate's experience is repeated rather often

I learned how to teach by being given a book and a course outline and a two-day orientation lecture; I prepared and gave an example lecture on the second day.  Then they left me alone until the end of the semester.

Not a good method; it worked with me (I pride myself on good teaching when I have the time to put into it, and make the time when I can) but the school preferred to produce researchers, to whom they said, in essence, "Sorry, but you'll probably have to teach too."

Teaching is rarely, in my experience in R1 institutions, part of the tenure and promotion process. Those TT professors who really care about teaching and really try to improve year to year are to be celebrated! They are not that rare, but in my experience, are not an overwhelming majority, either.

For what it's worth, that institution has since done much more, including requiring a first-year student with no prior teaching experience to assist a more experienced and (hopefully) concerned teacher. 

In the end, there's no substitute for experience, and I don't think that this will change.  At some point, the only way a person can get to be a good teacher is to try that first class, and learn from his or her mistakes.  But good training in advance can certainly minimize the number of, and reduce the severity of, those mistakes. 

Agree 10,000%. 

[punchnpie]

We learn what is expected of us by attending classes called "colloquia" in which a faculty mentor provides instruction (and in my case, a massive reading list) on writing syllabi, setting up course policies, designing assignments, classroom management, etc. 

Wow! You had this? That's great. I never even heard of actually being taught how to run a class. I took a class on learning styles and my adviser practically had a cow because it wasn't research-related.

We learn far, far more about teaching by sitting in pubs late into the night and bouncing ideas and anecdotes off of each other.

This was more like my background - listening to other students who were TAs.

To the OP - While a doctoral student, I only TA'd once. I was really worried about my teaching ability - as in, did I have any? As soon as I stepped on campus for my new job, I took advantage of the Teaching Center. I borrowed books and met with the counselors. Around the middle of the term, I asked students to tell me what worked and what wasn't working in class (confidentially, on 3x5 cards) and put the suggestions into practice.  I tried to remember that my students were not doctoral students and created syllabi appropriate for their level. I admit to struggling with this a little.

I'm still consider myself new at this game. I try to be open to suggestions and talk to other faculty and friends at other schools for hints.

[sikora]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Teaching is not product, and it is really more than a service. Any idiot or yahoo at Home Depot can provide service. Teaching and learning occur through social relationships, which entail mutual rights and obligations.  That's right, students have obligations to their professors.  And if somebody says something about paying tuition, let me point out that students have been paying tuition for centuries, before customer service surveys.  I think Plato got paid, did he not?

Student:  Professor, I will do anything to get an A in this course.
Professor:  Really, anything?
Student:  Anything.
Professor:  Absolutely anything?
Student:  Whatever you want, Professor, I'll do.
Professor:  Okay!  First, read the syllabus.  Then read the text book and come to class. For every hour you are in my class, you must spend about 2 hours reading, writing, and studying the class material.  When you've done that, we can talk about your A.

[concerned_parent]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Teaching is not product, and it is really more than a service. Any idiot or yahoo at Home Depot can provide service. Teaching and learning occur through social relationships, which entail mutual rights and obligations.  That's right, students have obligations to their professors.  And if somebody says something about paying tuition, let me point out that students have been paying tuition for centuries, before customer service surveys.  I think Plato got paid, did he not?

Student:  Professor, I will do anything to get an A in this course.
Professor:  Really, anything?
Student:  Anything.
Professor:  Absolutely anything?
Student:  Whatever you want, Professor, I'll do.
Professor:  Okay!  First, read the syllabus.  Then read the text book and come to class. For every hour you are in my class, you must spend about 2 hours reading, writing, and studying the class material.  When you've done that, we can talk about your A.

How about adding: I don't generally give out "A", however if you do what I say, you can probably aim for a respectable B.

[grasshopper]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Wooh!  Get on with your bad self, Sikora!

[voxprincipalis]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Teaching is not product, and it is really more than a service. Any idiot or yahoo at Home Depot can provide service. Teaching and learning occur through social relationships, which entail mutual rights and obligations.  That's right, students have obligations to their professors.  And if somebody says something about paying tuition, let me point out that students have been paying tuition for centuries, before customer service surveys.  I think Plato got paid, did he not?

Student:  Professor, I will do anything to get an A in this course.
Professor:  Really, anything?
Student:  Anything.
Professor:  Absolutely anything?
Student:  Whatever you want, Professor, I'll do.
Professor:  Okay!  First, read the syllabus.  Then read the text book and come to class. For every hour you are in my class, you must spend about 2 hours reading, writing, and studying the class material.  When you've done that, we can talk about your A.

How about adding: I don't generally give out "A", however if you do what I say, you can probably aim for a respectable B.

As LarryC used to say, professors don't "give out" grades. Instead, we report the results of students' choices to the registrar.

And the professor in the example did not say, "then you will be guaranteed an A" -- he/she merely said, "then we can talk about it." Read: doing all of the work of the class, including attendance, textbook reading, writing, and other class preparation, are necessary but not sufficient conditions for an A. Even if the student follows all of these instructions, the *quality* of the work may not be sufficient for him/her to have earned an A.

You are approaching the entire situation with a whole lot of expectations, biases, and "shoulds" of which you may not be aware.

VP

[sikora]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Teaching is not product, and it is really more than a service. Any idiot or yahoo at Home Depot can provide service. Teaching and learning occur through social relationships, which entail mutual rights and obligations.  That's right, students have obligations to their professors.  And if somebody says something about paying tuition, let me point out that students have been paying tuition for centuries, before customer service surveys.  I think Plato got paid, did he not?

Student:  Professor, I will do anything to get an A in this course.
Professor:  Really, anything?
Student:  Anything.
Professor:  Absolutely anything?
Student:  Whatever you want, Professor, I'll do.
Professor:  Okay!  First, read the syllabus.  Then read the text book and come to class. For every hour you are in my class, you must spend about 2 hours reading, writing, and studying the class material.  When you've done that, we can talk about your A.

How about adding: I don't generally give out "A", however if you do what I say, you can probably aim for a respectable B.

As LarryC used to say, professors don't "give out" grades. Instead, we report the results of students' choices to the registrar.

And the professor in the example did not say, "then you will be guaranteed an A" -- he/she merely said, "then we can talk about it." Read: doing all of the work of the class, including attendance, textbook reading, writing, and other class preparation, are necessary but not sufficient conditions for an A. Even if the student follows all of these instructions, the *quality* of the work may not be sufficient for him/her to have earned an A.

You are approaching the entire situation with a whole lot of expectations, biases, and "shoulds" of which you may not be aware.

VP

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Whatever.

[voxprincipalis]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Teaching is not product, and it is really more than a service. Any idiot or yahoo at Home Depot can provide service. Teaching and learning occur through social relationships, which entail mutual rights and obligations.  That's right, students have obligations to their professors.  And if somebody says something about paying tuition, let me point out that students have been paying tuition for centuries, before customer service surveys.  I think Plato got paid, did he not?

Student:  Professor, I will do anything to get an A in this course.
Professor:  Really, anything?
Student:  Anything.
Professor:  Absolutely anything?
Student:  Whatever you want, Professor, I'll do.
Professor:  Okay!  First, read the syllabus.  Then read the text book and come to class. For every hour you are in my class, you must spend about 2 hours reading, writing, and studying the class material.  When you've done that, we can talk about your A.

How about adding: I don't generally give out "A", however if you do what I say, you can probably aim for a respectable B.

As LarryC used to say, professors don't "give out" grades. Instead, we report the results of students' choices to the registrar.

And the professor in the example did not say, "then you will be guaranteed an A" -- he/she merely said, "then we can talk about it." Read: doing all of the work of the class, including attendance, textbook reading, writing, and other class preparation, are necessary but not sufficient conditions for an A. Even if the student follows all of these instructions, the *quality* of the work may not be sufficient for him/her to have earned an A.

You are approaching the entire situation with a whole lot of expectations, biases, and "shoulds" of which you may not be aware.

VP

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Whatever.

What is that supposed to mean? I am speaking to Concerned_Parent, actually in support of your point.

VP

[concerned_parent]

VP:

I am not conceited or presumptuous. My post is not to put any one get defensive. My post is to seek replies; for professors who feel defensive, you should act like you act in classrooms....ignore my post.

Some of you do feel that I am attacking the status quo; I am not.
I am seeking answers. I could have taken the usual path of reading up on numerous studies but this is much easier.

I am very grateful to all replies. I am very respectful to all kinds of replies. This is a real life sample of teaching staff.

[pocksuppet]

I am a potential future teacher and therefore, I qualify to be on this chat. Other parents may or may not consider to be professors, that is their choice.

The poll at the start of this thread does not bode well for your exams.

[voxprincipalis]

I am not conceited or presumptuous. My post is not to put any one get defensive. My post is to seek replies; for professors who feel defensive, you should act like you act in classrooms....ignore my post.

I did not say you were conceited or presumptuous. I said you have expectations and biases. Those are not at all the same thing. For example, you have laid out the expectation that if the student follows the above directions, he/she is likely to receive a B. Students are likely to look at this as a guarantee: "but you said if I did all of those things, I'd get a B!" Meanwhile, you have not addressed the *quality* of the work done. Furthermore, you have characterized the B as "respectable" -- this imposes your values, which are not necessarily shared by the students, and some of them may decide that if a B is "respectable" then there is no need to strive for an "A." Additionally, someone who does a large quantity of work of poor quality ought not to receive a grade that you think is "respectable" if the work itself is not "respectable."

You have an idea of how the process works that is not the same as how it actually works. Therefore, you are comparing your expectations of the process to the actuality and finding some cognitive dissonance.

VP

[concerned_parent]

VP:

I would love to give you my time to extrapolate what I said. I said: you could expect. Now you decipher that someone would interpret it as a commitment. Next, in some universities B is considered very respectable and A is very rare. I know of faculty members who do not give out more than one or two A's (in class of 30).

Irrespective of my comment, the reality is that "that" student demonstrates good American values and want to learn to succeed. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with what I said?

I dont get it PERIOD

[sikora]

I just have to say this!  There's something implied but not stated here which makes me want to shout:  LAY OFF. MOST OF US DO THE BEST WE CAN.

and we strive to do better.

Teaching is not product, and it is really more than a service. Any idiot or yahoo at Home Depot can provide service. Teaching and learning occur through social relationships, which entail mutual rights and obligations.  That's right, students have obligations to their professors.  And if somebody says something about paying tuition, let me point out that students have been paying tuition for centuries, before customer service surveys.  I think Plato got paid, did he not?

Student:  Professor, I will do anything to get an A in this course.
Professor:  Really, anything?
Student:  Anything.
Professor:  Absolutely anything?
Student:  Whatever you want, Professor, I'll do.
Professor:  Okay!  First, read the syllabus.  Then read the text book and come to class. For every hour you are in my class, you must spend about 2 hours reading, writing, and studying the class material.  When you've done that, we can talk about your A.

How about adding: I don't generally give out "A", however if you do what I say, you can probably aim for a respectable B.

As LarryC used to say, professors don't "give out" grades. Instead, we report the results of students' choices to the registrar.

And the professor in the example did not say, "then you will be guaranteed an A" -- he/she merely said, "then we can talk about it." Read: doing all of the work of the class, including attendance, textbook reading, writing, and other class preparation, are necessary but not sufficient conditions for an A. Even if the student follows all of these instructions, the *quality* of the work may not be sufficient for him/her to have earned an A.

You are approaching the entire situation with a whole lot of expectations, biases, and "shoulds" of which you may not be aware.

VP

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Whatever.

What is that supposed to mean? I am speaking to Concerned_Parent, actually in support of your point.

VP

Oops! Sorry. Very, very sorry.