next »

[dellaroux]

Good characterization.

I meant to ask a few weeks ago--any conspiracy theorists contributing reasons for Sarko's recent collapse (while running, wasn't it?)

Someone in our conversation group called it "doing a Jim Fixx" although thankfully (i.e., not to wish ill on the man, even if I can barely stand him) it wasn't fatal.

Just curious....

[ideagirl]

As I already told you, this situation desperates me.

"This situation puts me in a state of despair" is more English. ("Makes me despair" would also be correct, but it sounds faintly unnatural just because people don't generally say it.) Desperate isn't a verb, and despair is not a transitive verb in English. Despair can be an intransitive verb, but it's also a noun and it's as a noun that we tend to use it.

[frenchdoctor]

Sadly, I see that the good ole trick "add the suffix -ate to any French verb" isn't fooling anyone anymore. I should be more cautious, but internet is such a hasty stuff...

So far, I've not heard any conspiracy theory about Sarkozy's collapse. Everyone knows he's a crazy jogger and that kind of thing was expected.

Nonetheless, you read and hear the most amazing things these days, even among academics. Left-wing intellectuals are running amok. It's a Sartre revival. I've even heard a physicist of the CNRS praising the splendid results of sovietic science. I hope he doesn't deal with any Chernobyl-sized nuclear device. Anti-americanism is at its peak again. From another academic, I've recently learned that a big conspiracy is on its way to linguistically colonize us (*). Microsoft, McDonald's and Disney are meddling with our minds, you see. Serious people, who are supposed to know a little bit of history, are considering the Fidel Castro way of life once again. Alain Badiou is seen by some as a prophet.

On the other hand, to be fair, Sarkozy keeps provoking them. Sarko may be uncultured but, politically speaking, he's smart. He knows what to do to divide the left and lead them to embarrass themselves.

I've already said the admiration I have for Pierre Jourde. He wrote an interesting article about the situation. He opposes Sarkozy, but he aknowledges the fact that left-wing intellectuals, all in all, are going a bit too far.

http://bibliobs.nouvelobs.com/blog/pierre-jourde/20090529/12781/de-la-culture-en-sarkozie


The beginning of the text is half ironic -- but not entirely ironic. The in-between is probably difficult to grasp for non-native speakers. But, actually, Jourde is very honest in his approach.

"Supposons que, dans un de ces colloques ou de ces festivals où se retrouvent régulièrement écrivains et intellectuels, je me montre peu empressé à dénoncer la politique gouvernementale. Ce faisant, je me grille définitivement dans le milieu qui compte pour moi, qui me lit, m'édite, m'invite, fait des articles sur mes livres. J'apparais comme un réac, c'est-à-dire, dans le petit monde intellectuel, comme le paria absolu. Pour presque toutes mes relations, amicales ou professionnelles, Sarkozy est le nom donné à la barbarie, comme dirait Alain Badiou. Comment pourrais-je me couper de tout cela ? "

Such honesty is so rare. He says that not criticizing Sarkozy would put an immediate end to his academic career. The situation such as it is today, he's not exaggerating. I assure you that I could not make fun of the Revolution in any French academic setting the way I do in this thread. People would kick me out of the room. No kidding. Even close colleagues find weird that I don't protest in the streets, like anyone else. Not that I support Sarkozy, but I've better things to do -- like reading books.

Anyway, if my publisher happens to read me, I want to loudly say : Vive la Revolution ! Hasta Siempre ! We will bury you !

I hope it will be enough.



----------------
(*) That's why I voluntarily write an unperfect english. It is not lazy grammar, it's resistance to colonization. Ha ! ha ! See Ideagirl ? You won't get me because I'm too smart.  

[dellaroux]

Hmmm...more and more concatenated. 

Until the most recent election here, of course, a similar reaction to the Shrub was de rigueur, but it had a useful social function: a shorthand means of identifying your party politics, letting friends and new acquaintances alike know that you wouldn't go ballistic on them for criticizing the Cheneygarchy's frontman.

A sort of "all's clear" signal, if you will...if someone started clearing their throat or getting a furrowed forehead, you changed the subject (unless you were all REALLY good friends) because you weren't going to come to any agreements and the conversation could only go downhill from there, if in a socially constrained setting.

I particularly found this useful in France for the 8 years the Shrub was holding forth, since I didn't want people to feel constrained around ME in saying what they thought. My usual tag line was <<il n'est pas 'mon' president, je ne l'ai pas elu...>>

Mostly, it worked.


But the response you're describing to the (French) Revoultion....It's not unlike the take "conservatives" here have for on American Revolution, although I realize you're talking about French liberals, yes?

Discussing American colonial church artifacts and their interpretations in tours and gallery visits, one must un-peel about 16 layers of religiousity about the "Founding Fathers (sic)," their confessional stances (no, they're weren't all Puritains, by the late 18th c. that word has little meaning in describing early New Englanders' faith or practices) and their approach to material cultural goods (by the mid- to late-1600s, much of the negative aesthetic associated with early colonial Puritanism had been diffused, the established towns were in fact very much attuned to what was going on stylistically, architecturally and liturgically in Europe and Old England, and material deprivations--Cistercian-like, self-inflicted; or contextually wilderness-imposed--had begun to disappear.

And still one gets people who speak in hushed tones, as if chorales of "America the Beautiful" were playing in the background, for whom every discussion of historical useage has to have be tied to a Scripture verse somewhere (I literally just got a letter like that from a tour attendee, in fact).

So it's on the opposite side of the "liberal/conservative" fence (or one of them) but national origin myths still do inspire awe and sanctification, on this side of the puddle, as well. My commiserations.

___

In reading through the article, in fact, the references to the Jeff Koons/Versailles exhibit at the end play on the same theme.

If you look at more developed discussion/coverage of the exhibit (see: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/09/11/arts/design/20080911_KOONS_SLIDESHOW_index.html) it even makes sense, in the way you (Frenchdoctor) were talking about.

Koons is spoofing, in very careful ways, I think, the superficiality, the fetishisms, and the control-of-nature practices (love the topiary rhino--very in keeping with Louis XIV's moveable 'orangerie') that characterized the era. I "get" it.

<<Allons, O citoyens...>>


** Oh, and it's "Imperfect" (not unperfect) English...(just to be fair...)  :--}

(Unless, even in that, you were working out a tweak...in which case the layers of symbolism approach the Ricoeurean)

[yalinda]

That's nothing.  It rains in Portland, Oregon from mid October to mid June - straight.  At least you have the lovely sights of Paris - not to mention countless museums - to distract you. 

[dellaroux]

Welcome to the Forum; you might want to head over to the official "welcome" thread if you haven't already, also!

This thread has evolved from a plahnt about the physical meteo to a discussion of the way things are more generally, although you're right, rainy or not, one is still in Paris, or wherever else one might be, on that side of the puddle...

Actually, come to think about it, one of the crazy things that didn't happen this past June was too much rain while I was in the environs. Thank goodness for that--enough other crazy things did happen to make up for it.

[frenchdoctor]

Hello, Yalinda. Maybe we should explain. In French "parler de la pluie et du beau temps" means : chatting about a little bit of everything. I used this as a pretext to derail the thread, instead of creating a new one everytime something new happens.

Dellaroux, yes, it's a weird phenomenon. Some dirty tricks used by the neo-cons in the US (mudslinging, imaginary rumors, intimidation, blacklisting) are here used by some left-wing activists. By the way, they're not all "liberals". Many of them, like Badiou, are die-hard communists. Public universities, especially social sciences and humanities departments, are their hunting grounds. They're at minority even there, but powerful enough to dictate their law.

And when I say "mudslinging", it can be literal. For example, last week, the President of a university was splattered with a bucket of excrement :

http://www.fabula.org/actualites/article32745.php

This president isn't even a sarkomaniac (I've already worked with him), since he supported Ségolène Royal. But he tries to run his university and that's enough to humiliate him. The episode is, very unfortunately, significant of the situation at some French universities. That's how far-left people here think. They are so convinced to be good (and so convinced that the "others" are Hitler) that they're ready to do anything. The episode also says a lot about the mental age and the intellectual level of some students. Many of them, these days, are barely literate. The far-left thinkers offer them simple ideas, easy to follow. Therefore, not only are they utter cretins, but they are utter cretins guided by a cause.

And of course, since teaching must be "student-centered", it means that teen morons lauching buckets of excrement have to be respected. Teachers must try to understand the dear little innocent snowflakes, you see, and their youthful, justified anger. Actually, throwing sh.t on teachers is some sort of social awareness, isn't it ? It proves they thankfully resist power and authority.

If you ask me, such students should be kicked out of academia with maximum force. But no can do. Student-centered, always, student-centered, whatever happens, student-centered is our sacred dogma. Selection is the ultimate evil. It's even illegal at public universities. So, a teachers' job is to swallow the excrement with a smile (don't be negative !) and continue to fake teaching.

Here again, I could not say such things in a university. I would be seen as a sarkoziste (the word is sputtered more than it is told).

I feel I don't have any professional future in France. I love my country, but flying buckets of excrement (among many other propaganda actions *) are way beyond what I'm ready to accept.  As an intellectual, I feel like a stranger in my own country.


-----------------------
(*) here is an example of what becomes a lecture given by a (mildly) conservative teacher :

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5fki4_finkielkraut-chansons_webcam

And it's at sciences-po, which is far from being the most left-wing place in France. At a public university, in the humanities and social sciences, any teacher who isn't left-wing would be de facto forbidden to teach.

[parispundit]

I think "makes me desperate" or "makes me despair" would both be better than the overly long "puts me in a state of despair".

The weather in Paris is lovely right now.

The forms of PC prevalent in academia are certainly very different in France and the US, but academia's love for sectarianism everywhere is one more proof that we are a bunch of unfrocked clergy. I never attended a department meeting in the US where avowed members of the Republican party were not subject to ostracism. Not so bad as conservatives in France, of course. Nevertheless, some relatively conservative French intellectuals have done very well - I'm thinking of Aron and Revel.

[unspoiled]

Hello, Yalinda. Maybe we should explain. In French "parler de la pluie et du beau temps" means : chatting about a little bit of everything. I used this as a pretext to derail the thread, instead of creating a new one everytime something new happens.

More derailing (brief, I promise).

Frenchdoctor, does the phrase parler de la pluie et du beau temps as you've explained it above, mean the same thing, or is it related to faire la pluie et le beau temps?  You know, the way it's used in Patrick Bruel's song, for example. 

On passe sa vie à dire merci
Merci à qui? à quoi?
A faire la pluie et le beau temps
Pour des enfants à qui l'on ment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWqkoj9MPMY&feature=related

[frenchdoctor]

Frenchdoctor, does the phrase parler de la pluie et du beau temps as you've explained it above, mean the same thing, or is it related to faire la pluie et le beau temps?  

Not exactly.  

"Faire la pluie et le beau temps" means "do whetever pleases you." When you say, for example, that a mayor "fait la pluie et le beau temps" in his city, it means he has vast powers -- as if he could decide even the weather. It means meddling with a little bit of everything, taking all sort of authoritative decisions.

In the song, it means that you decide eveything in the name of the children -- almost shaping their mental universe by lying to them.

Well sorry. Like many metaphoric, colloquial expressions, they are at the same time clear and difficult to explain.

[unspoiled]

Frenchdoctor, does the phrase parler de la pluie et du beau temps as you've explained it above, mean the same thing, or is it related to faire la pluie et le beau temps? 

Not exactly. 

"Faire la pluie et le beau temps" means "do whetever pleases you." When you say, for example, that a mayor "fait la pluie et le beau temps" in his city, it means he has vast powers -- as if he could decide even the weather. It means meddling with a little bit of everything, taking all sort of authoritative decisions.

Thanks!

[frenchdoctor]

Nevertheless, some relatively conservative French intellectuals have done very well - I'm thinking of Aron and Revel.

I have a deep admiration for Aron. Most of my political thought comes from him. As you probably guess, it means I'm some sort of extraterrestrial being in French academia. No one reads Aron anymore. Oddly enough, Aron always considered himself as a left-wing person -- he opposed colonization, for example. But, then again, he felt that far-left speeches, methods and theories were so obviously botched that it was impossible to accept them.

Very sadly, "L'opium des intellectuels" (1955) and "La révolution introuvable" (1968) are must-read even today. It means that France intellectual situation hasn't changed that much in half a century. Except, probably, to the worst. Revolutionary kids in the '60 had at least a little bit of culture. Today, they're the Borat generation. Brainless scatology is their natural way of thinking. Even at college level, they have the mental age of small children. They are "infants" in the etymological sense : they don't possess enough mastery of the language to express coherent ideas.

Finkielkraut isn't always right, and he likes media a little to much in my opinion. Nonetheless, what a splendid speaker he is ! Shutting up such a cultured person with boos, slogans and idiotic songs... well, it's an adequate shortcut of what kind of childish circus French academia is today.

[dellaroux]

I'm very troubled by the excrement-slinging.

It's a serious step towards defiling someone completely, not just making a smelly, awful mess.

Pschologically speaking, that's very close to a wish to kill someone.

What would happen were he to find a lawyer and sue for something like character defamation, assault and bodily harm (given the kinds of microbes potentially present in human body fluids)?

Would it get to court?

[frenchdoctor]

I'm very troubled by the excrement-slinging.

It ought to happen. As I said, since French universities are not selective, they welcome students who are really, really dumb (I know that I sound evil when I say things like that, but that episode, at least, offers me an evidence). Add extremists with a political agenda to spur them, and the situation rapidly turns into disaster. Rennes is the most left-wing campus in France (*). Anarchists, leninists, trotskyists... You name them, you get them. Last year, no actual teaching was done there  -- and it's a rampant situation, not a temporary one.

Here is an example of the kind of delirious, violent blather they produce. It's before the affair, but it seems to prepare it :

http://nantes.indymedia.org/article/16957

I repeat, even if it's irrelevant, that this president is a liberal. But when you face such craziness, political categories are meaningless.

Now, what to do ? The victim is indeed sueing. But since French universities are open-enrollment by law, it's very difficult to do anything. It's almost impossible to fire a student. At a French university, for example, you can smoke dope during classroom without any sanction. There is no campus security whatsoever, so the teacher would have to arrest the offender all by himself/herself. A graduate student, at my alma matter (Strasbourg), was charged last year with drug dealing. His major was chemistry (hey, it's logical, at least). He was proven guilty by justice... but no academic sanction was taken against him. He's free to continue his cursus. He was even granted a probation so he can finish his PhD.

As you see, you can barely fire a student at any public university in France, even in case of proven felony. No selection, that's the law.


---------------
(*) Something that really amuses me is that this university has exchange programs with ... Notre Dame. Oh my God -- if I can say so. Sending catholic students from a selective university to an anarchist open-enrollment cesspit ? Brilliant. At least, ND kids will learn how to dodge buckets of excrement.

[frenchdoctor]

I've overlooked this :

http://bellaciao.org/fr/spip.php?article90604

It's a declaration written by the group who threw the bucket. I think no translation is needed. It's stupid beyond measure, it's childish, delirious, violent and scatological. It is written by students at a top tier research university in France.

People with EdD will probably say that I have to respect to culture of the students, which is not inferior to mine. They'll say that I need to learn from them, and respect their opinion whatever they are. The day I will teach, they'll say that evaluations written by such deranged, excrement lauching students are the best way to measure the quality of my work as a teacher. Expert educationalists will try hard to convince me that the sweet angels are merely expressing an opinion, maybe a little too lively, but only proving so the depth of their social awareness. They'll say that I have to center my teaching on them. They'll say that, if I refuse student's centered ideology, my application won't even be considered.  

Sorry. I refuse to "center" my teaching on delirious scatological cretins. I refuse to consider what they think of my work. I've got some pride left.