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[shrimp]

I can definitely relate to the OP and will second the suggestion to not give up yet - it has not been that long yet!
It took me 6 months and it felt like forever!  I was charting and examining mucus, etc.  That showed that I was ovulating but my cycles were irregular.  My OB convinced me to stop charting and just have sex every other days on days 9-20 and that worked!  She really thinks that the stress of charting and pressure of knowing when you are ovulating reduces your chances.  We also had the issue of scheduling sex making it much less fun.  When we just switched to every other day, it took off some of the pressure.

I would also suggest both you & your husband see a specialist for fertility testing b/c there are many less major options than IVF and even Clomid.  It is true that fertility declines with age and there is a greater risk of chromosomal abnormalities but there are also many women having kids in their early 40's.  We were about to schedule testing (my OB said to do it after 6 months if you are over 35 just so you don't waste time) when I got the positive test and I'm due in 2 months :)

Good luck!

[threadkiller]

Has anyone experienced going on Clomid and having it mysteriously stop working?  The dr. tested me the first two cycles (1st did not work, the increased dose worked on Cycle 2) and then said I did not need to have my progesterone levels tested b/c it was working.  I had a really long cycle on round 4 (I took several pregnancy tests--all negative--so I don't think it was an early miscarriage) and this cycle I finally bought an ovulation kit and do not appear to have ovulated.  I convinced the dr. to retest me so I will know for sure.

I am 38 and trying not to get too obsessed.  We have been trying for over a year now.  I feel for you!  I think managing my emotions is harder than the medical interventions...

[_touchedbyanoodle_]

I was under the impression that OPKs don't work when you are taking Clomid, but it's definitely a question for your doctor, not us. Best of luck with it all.

[threadkiller]

I was under the impression that OPKs don't work when you are taking Clomid, but it's definitely a question for your doctor, not us. Best of luck with it all.

No, they should work.  But you are right, I will be seeing my doctor at the end of this cycle.  i was just wondering if anyone had heard of such a thing.

Sorry for the hijack!

[cityprof]

I'm glad to see this thread; my hubby and I are dealing with infertility (just got the news Friday that our first IVF cycle did not work).

The problem is his sperm, primarily, though there is an issue on my side as well. We went through the charting and horrible timed sex for a year before getting tested and discovering the diagnosis, then nearly another year before we were ready to attempt treatment (it was go-straight-to-IVF for us because of the male factor issue).

jammer, I do hope that you and your husband are not actually infertile, and that you have luck very soon.

I'm really posting, though, because dellaroux, I wanted to respond to some of your comments about adoption.

the millions of children who live institutionalized lives or bounce from foster home to foster home until age 18 also deserve love, nurture, and care.

Completely agreed, but why is it the responsibility of the infertile to provide that love, nurture, and care? No one sits down with fertile couples who are thinking of starting a family and asks them to please consider adoption rather than reproducing their own genes. (Though maybe someone should!) It seems unfair that infertile people are considered selfish --or, in your words, vain-- for wanting to have biological children, but no one accuses people who conceive easily of being vain for never considering adoption.

A few were also almost repulsively hetero/zenophobic about the issue of adopting, insisting (unlike the husband named above, whose response makes good sense to me) that they had to have a child "of their own," just because that child would "prove their ability to become parents" and "preserve their own DNA." (in some, this approached a kind of vanity that was really hard to address.)

I've surprised myself with how much I'm not interested in adopting, but in my case it has little to do with vanity, or some kind of biological imperative to preserve my own DNA. I don't want to parent any child, I want to parent my husband's child. This is not a sentiment that is considered vain or selfish--or even unusual--when expressed by a couple who can conceive naturally.

But I do think that adopting the children that are already among us and/or finding ways to work with needy children in more fragile families deserves to be upheld as an equally viable alternative to creating more new ones, important as that might be.

Again, totally agreed; I just think that if this is to be upheld as an option, it should be encouraged for all couples, not just for infertile couples. You may not have been trying to say that only infertile people "should consider adoption," but I do think that's the implication from many well-meaning observers, and it feels very unfair.

As I said, though, we just got the bad news that our first cycle failed, and the news is hitting hard, so perhaps I'm oversensitive.

[llanfair]

CityProf, so sorry to hear you've had discouraging news.  Fingers crossed for the next round, and for everyone else who's trying.   

[cms99]

CityProf, so sorry to hear that your cycle didn't work.  Be good to yourself in the coming weeks.  Wine, cheese, the things you denied yourself while cycling.  I hope your RE has some insights at your post-consult.  You and Mr. CityProf are in my thoughts.

[sylvie]

I started trying at age 35 and it took me two years.  I finally went for testing (had blood work to test hormones and egg levels, had my partner's sperm analyzed, and had my tubes x-rayed) and everything came back normal.  It can take a long time even if everything is fine.  Sorry for the TMI, but what finally worked was having TONS of sex (not as much fun as it sounds), doing it missionary position, and staying on my back with a pillow under my hips for 30 min. after each try.

Many times testing is covered my insurance (mine wasn't) but it gave me a lot of peace of mind when I found out I was "normal."  Literally got pregnant a month later. 

[johnr]

I've surprised myself with how much I'm not interested in adopting, but in my case it has little to do with vanity, or some kind of biological imperative to preserve my own DNA. I don't want to parent any child, I want to parent my husband's child.

An adopted child would be your husband's child, and yours.

[jammer]

Thanks so much again for all of your stories; the guys' perspectives were especially helpful.  I usually consider myself pretty considerate of others, but my husband completely fell out of the equation  because I was so focused on my body (Is this just PMS? Am I ovulating?  Why am I so tired? I know I feel different this time....all that jazz).   

We don't feel the same way as Cityprof about adoption, but we decided this weekend that we'll try just a bit longer before we think seriously about it.  October is hideously busy for me and so we're going to go one more month the old fashioned way and then I'll make an appointment to see what the possibilities are.

Best of luck to the others who are also trying...

[dellaroux]

I'm really posting, though, because dellaroux, I wanted to respond to some of your comments about adoption.

the millions of children who live institutionalized lives or bounce from foster home to foster home until age 18 also deserve love, nurture, and care.

Completely agreed, but why is it the responsibility of the infertile to provide that love, nurture, and care? No one sits down with fertile couples who are thinking of starting a family and asks them to please consider adoption rather than reproducing their own genes. (Though maybe someone should!) It seems unfair that infertile people are considered selfish --or, in your words, vain-- for wanting to have biological children, but no one accuses people who conceive easily of being vain for never considering adoption.

A few were also almost repulsively hetero/zenophobic about the issue of adopting, insisting (unlike the husband named above, whose response makes good sense to me) that they had to have a child "of their own," just because that child would "prove their ability to become parents" and "preserve their own DNA." (in some, this approached a kind of vanity that was really hard to address.)

I've surprised myself with how much I'm not interested in adopting, but in my case it has little to do with vanity, or some kind of biological imperative to preserve my own DNA. I don't want to parent any child, I want to parent my husband's child. This is not a sentiment that is considered vain or selfish--or even unusual--when expressed by a couple who can conceive naturally.

But I do think that adopting the children that are already among us and/or finding ways to work with needy children in more fragile families deserves to be upheld as an equally viable alternative to creating more new ones, important as that might be.

Again, totally agreed; I just think that if this is to be upheld as an option, it should be encouraged for all couples, not just for infertile couples. You may not have been trying to say that only infertile people "should consider adoption," but I do think that's the implication from many well-meaning observers, and it feels very unfair.

As I said, though, we just got the bad news that our first cycle failed, and the news is hitting hard, so perhaps I'm oversensitive.

Fair replies; and I'm sorry that the procedures you're trying are taking so long to work.

In fact, I'm not labeling anyone as "fertile" or "infertile" per se, because there are, especially with current technologies, many points along that continuum--degrees of fertility, or the likelihood of conception, have always been the case, but more recent discoveries and procedures make that even clearer--for some, clomid is sufficient, for others IVF, IUI, etc.

What I was saying, though, was that people who want children might take adoption more seriously. Relatively more fertile or not people, that is, as you generously and more correctly assessed my meaning. It also becomes a bit of a litmus test for motivation: does the couple truly want "any child to love," or is it only "our child" that will be loveable? As one of the other posters noted, an adopted child in a loving family is also "our child." And I know there are many deep-seated feelings there, and I'm not judging any of them, just saying it is essential to have those conversations and know one's own heart and mind, and that of one's spouse/partner, to be clear.

I'm also thinking in terms of the extreme situations I saw while working in a center which had a very high "success ratio" and yet would see couples continuing to "try for their baby" (a phrase that bothers me, it sounds like a sports event) for five years or more. It was as if the motivations of love, caring, and nurture of a child had somehow become hijacked and the goal-driven procedures had themselves taken over. At some point that can become demeaning, I think, and if things have gone to that point, then, especially if the couple is still sure that a child in their lives would be the most important element for them to share, considering other alternatives is simply sane.

I was also describing things I and others in the setting saw. There were three staff members, a counseling social worker, six nurses and two MDs on site, and we were all very concerned with how patients were feeling, what they were experiencing, and what was happening with them. We also saw a lot of intense situations, with shared pain, joy, and despair. So I'm not in any way pigeon-holing the relatively infertile as having responsibilities for anything except doing the best they can in a difficult situation, the same as anyone else--and by and large, that's what I saw people doing.

And in the context of all that, I think that anyone who is considering making space in their lives for children needs to consider adoption. I know of one family made up of some indigenous and some adopted children. I know of another made up entirely of (4) adopted children because that's what they decided to do. Because of the secrecy around adoption until recently, there may have been many more adoptive families than anyone even knows about.

It's just important to be clear about one's goals, and not to let the procedures "take over" ones life. Adoption is an open option to anyone, and rather than being seen as an "admission of failure," perhaps it deserves to be seen for the generous, loving form of making a child's life meaningful that it is. That was my observation when I worked in the clinic, and it's still how I see things--for anyone.

Thanks for the option to clarify.

[normative_]

With the proviso that you aren't going for 'serious medical intervention:

(1) How do you keep from being obsessed with this?

Have as much sex as you can. It tends to work better than the clinics. Babysit when you feel a need to be parental. Enjoy giving the kids back when they get stinky or nasty. Notice how glad your friends and family members are to get them off their hands for a bit.

(2) How do you keep this from completely ruining your sex life?  Having sex by the dictates of a calendar isn't the most fun thing I've ever done.  I think it's even worse for him.

See above. And yes, it's terrible for him if you're following all of that 'abstinence for 3 days, then timed with bla bla bla' and all that.

(3) Although we've been married for 7 years, my husband "couldn't decide" about children until about a year ago.  He had good reasons for this, but I still can't help but blame him a little, down deep in the back of my mind.

Get it off your chest before you start hating his guts. But I basically agree with what Wegie said here. You both were a part of this, and context played a role in your choices. Also, beware of the 'I thought that you thought that...' and 'you never listen to me really' and 'I was only doing what I thought you wanted in waiting' and 'you're just a selfish scumbucket' or 'if you were a real man you would have known what you want earlier and we wouldn't be here' kind of nonsense. Do yourself a favour and be sensible and caring about it.

A dangerous part here is this:

My eggs are old and moldy because he had the luxury of having a long existential crisis about whether or not to have children.

If you carry this around with you, you will poison the marriage and you will either divorce or poison each other until you wish you'd done. Counselling isn't mandatory, but consider it. It's ultimately beyond our competence here to help you with that.

[/quote](4) I also know that we can adopt and we've discussed the possibility. For those of you who don't have kids though, how did you reconcile yourself to the fact that you won't have any?   I guess I always thought I would be a mother.  I really like kids. [/quote

You haven't said how you feel about this. I take it you haven't accepted that route yet. Maybe you can't any more, I don't know. You'll otherwise have to re-define yourself without motherhood, but I can ask you a different question: if you'd be nothing without motherhood, why weren't you nothing before? Of course you were someone special. Look back on that and remember it.

I don't think I know how to define myself without that.

If you want to go on living (sanely), you will have to. The only question is whether you remain attached to a vision of yourself that has nothing to do with reality, or whether you will transform yourself into a new role which isn't built on motherhood.

But I have to say, if it's really that important to you, then I really don't understand why you aren't going to a clinic for some help. That just doesn't make sense. Maybe you don't have the money, but there is a gap between what you say you want and what you're (not) doing to reach your goal.

[cityprof]

does the couple truly want "any child to love," or is it only "our child" that will be loveable? As one of the other posters noted, an adopted child in a loving family is also "our child."

Thanks for your lengthy reply and clarification, dellaroux. My full answer to the question you pose, above, is fairly complex, and I don't want to hijack the OP's thread too much. I will say, though, in response to johnr's point that an adopted child is or would be my husband's child and mine, that I understand this intellectually. Emotionally, though, it's more difficult. Especially since I have always been ambivalent about becoming a mother, and for many years was certain I didn't want children at all.

What changed that for me was meeting my husband. So wanting to become a mother is very tied up for me, emotionally, with wanting to parent with him in particular (as such the notion that I would leave him because our problem is mostly with his swimmers is utterly nonsensical to me, actually, contrary to your cousin's experience). I know that I can parent with him without having biological children with him, but I also dream of seeing his face in our children--again, a small, almost throwaway sentiment that no one begrudges those who conceive easily.

Honestly, I think my resistance to adoption is temporary and is related to our current focus on exhausting the medical options--if we don't have success with IVF (which is covered by insurance, after all, while adoption costs many thousands of dollars that we don't have), I think adoption will be our eventual plan B (though I don't like to think about how realizing that fact might feel to the adopted child). It's even possible that even if we do have success with IVF we will consider adoption for kid #2. But it is hard to think about right now without having a kind of defensive and petulant "not FAIR" reaction. I will get over it.

Also, I really appreciate the kind words from everyone about our failed cycle. Again, lots of luck to you jammer, and I hope October's your month.

[gennimom]

On a lighter note, I once listened to a humorous presentation aimed at students by a guy who was his parent's natural child, while his sister was adopted. He said he used to tease his sister by telling her they picked her up at Wal-Mart.

Her reply? "Our parents chose me. They got stuck with you!"

He said he never did that again.

So if your concern is about what an adopted child might think about your attempt to have a natural child before adopting? Tell the child that while you tried to have one of your own, but the child is the one you were able to chose for yourself. The child wasn't the luck of the draw, but an actual choice.

[octoprof]

But I do think that adopting the children that are already among us and/or finding ways to work with needy children in more fragile families deserves to be upheld as an equally viable alternative to creating more new ones, important as that might be.

Again, totally agreed; I just think that if this is to be upheld as an option, it should be encouraged for all couples, not just for infertile couples. You may not have been trying to say that only infertile people "should consider adoption," but I do think that's the implication from many well-meaning observers, and it feels very unfair.

I don't think that "only infertile couples" is implied here. However, infertile couples who really want children have this other option as well. Couples who already have a bunch of children probably aren't interested or capable of adding to their full house. It's not unfair, it's just logic.  Even single people can adopt, so it's not personally about you that someone brought up this option.

(4) I also know that we can adopt and we've discussed the possibility. For those of you who don't have kids though, how did you reconcile yourself to the fact that you won't have any?   I guess I always thought I would be a mother.  I really like kids.  I don't think I know how to define myself without that.   

OP:

You are you. You do not need to give birth children to be the wonderful, unique you that you are.  Folks without children are no less valuable and important than folks who have children. Folks who have children are no more valuable and important than folks who do not have children.

I really like kids.
I thought I would be a mother someday.
It never happened.
I never conceived.
It's not the end of the world.

threadkiller: Clomid didn't work for me.

For those of you who don't have kids though, how did you reconcile yourself to the fact that you won't have any?   

Well, see, I didn't have a choice. My body chose not to participate. So, there's no reconciling to something I can't change.

It's like being mad that I'm short. I was tall at age 11. Taller than almost all the other kids. I never grew again.  You may as well ask how I reconciled myself to the fact that I will never be tall.

Not giving birth is not the worst thing that can happen to you. You can choose how to define yourself. You can choose how to define what is your own normal. You can choose to adopt, if you wish.

Signed,

44, infertile, totally incapable of conceiving now.