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[deldongo]

Yet another "another admission-into-PhD" programs question
I’ll shoot this straight. Here’s is my current situation:
BA Honours from a Canadian university (with a senior thesis)
Currently doing an MA
4.0 GPA in at least last 4 years of study (combining undergraduate and graduate school)
One article published, in French, in a peer-reviewed journal
One review published, also in French
Many scholarships, including a big federal one
Great letters of recommendation (I'm fairly sure about this)
Problems with the GRE: I have not taken in yet, and I am having problems with the verbal section; not so much with the quantitative. I`m hoping to get high 650s, or at least around 600 (the lower expectation). Currently, I am studying the vocabulary intensively (3-4 hours a day, and I have 4 weeks left before the exam)
Have six languages altogether (most very fluent, and one that I can read well)
My proposed subject received highly positive responses from professors from 4 Ivy League schools
Now, what do you people think are my chances of getting into one of those Ivy League schools? Any suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated!

History Grad

[carebearstare]

You should probably fill out fast-food joint applications in addition to your grad school applications.







I'm kidding, of course. But still, we'd need much more information to assess. Not to mention the fact that this is likely to be a competitive year, with people hiding from the economic turmoil in grad school.

Whatever you decide, always have several back-up programs.

[deldongo]

What other information would be helpful? I thought that I gave a pretty good snapshot....

[seniorscholar]

One thing you haven't considered is that most doctoral programs won't admit more than one or two students in any year who would be writing dissertations with the same professor. That probably means that at each of those four schools you'll be competing with the other people who have similar qualifications and interests, since all will (presumably) be aiming to work with the same four professors who have answered you favorably.

And of course the real answer is: how the heck can you find out unless you apply? To all four of them and to a couple of acceptable top-ranked programs in your field that are not Ivy, for safety sake.

[litcrittr82]

OP,

It looks like you have strong credentials, and this is something that you (perhaps) already know.  I'm guessing you're feeling now what I was feeling last year at this time while putting together my applications: a little anxiety over the combination of 1) really wanting to be accepted to a strong program, 2) feeling as though you're a good student and you deserve to be accepted to a strong program, and 3) knowing that despite 1 and 2, there's a good chance you might not be accepted to a strong program.  A promising applicant in this position often wants to hear concrete encouragement ('your chances are very good if you get a 700 or above on your GRE verbal'), but not even your closest academic adviser can really give you an accurate assessment of your chances for highly competitive programs.  You have the credentials, it seems, to be in the ballpark for top programs--that you can know--but as to whether you'll apply successfully, there's not much anyone can say about your chances other than 'good,' 'reasonable,' and 'bad.'  To give yourself the most possible control over your application process, I recommend the following:

You're only as good as your SoP and your writing sample.  If these aren't clean, clever, and truly exceptional, top programs will reject you 9 out of 10 times, regardless of your grades, test scores, language capabilities, etc.  In the humanities, the writing sample, SoP, and rec letters (in variable order) are usually the most important pieces of your application, and you've only mentioned the rec letters thus far.  Definitely hone your SoP and writing sample, and make sure you get input and criticism from as many of your professors as you can.  If you can find younger faculty who have just recently been in doctoral programs, and potentially served on admissions committees as grad. students recently, they can be tremendously helpful with writing the (very tricky) SoP and assessing your writing sample.

Stay organized, and begin putting together the pieces of your application as early as possible before the deadline.  Know which materials get sent via snail mail and which can be uploaded to an application vendor.  Make a table for this stuff, so that you can spend crunch time perfecting the most important parts of the application, and not sorting through application details or filling out your contact info. and job history.

Sympathize with and get encouragement from classmates or friends who are also doing applications; because the preparation and waiting periods can get pretty tough and sometimes downright depressing (with the weather and all, too).

Back to where I started: as best you can, let go of chances and probabilities and outcomes, and focus your energy on preparation.  You may be That Person (I know one every year it seems) who ends up getting into 4 Ivies and Stanford, or you may be the person (I know more than a few every year) who puts forth a strong application and doesn't get in anywhere they want to go.  I think you have to keep telling yourself that it will be OK either way.  And you can learn a lot from the process; so sometimes the person who gets in nowhere one year becomes the person who gets in everywhere the next. 

[polly_mer]

OP, for a Ph.D. program, a lot depends on factors outside your control.  Yes, you sound like you have a solid base, but, as Seniorscholar wrote, your choice of topic will determine your competition.  If everyone applying this year selects the same area, your odds are much lower than if you are the only applicant in a specific area.  Litcrittr82 is right that your statement of purpose and writing sample should be your focus at this point.  A good GRE doesn't increase your chances much, but a poor one will sink you if the competition for your specific interest is fierce.  No matter what, if your SoP and writing sample are medium to poor, you're sunk.

Therefore, polish your case for picking you for a funded position in your area.  If you're the only applicant, you've just gotten a head start on your project.  If the competition is fierce, you'll live and die by the case that you can make for why you should be the chosen one.

Good luck!

[carebearstare]

Other people have already explained the additional info I was looking for: namely, sub-specialty and the chances that there are folks who are in those areas at the programs you're applying to. If you don't fit well with a program, they won't accept you simply because you have an impressive dossier.

There are also so many factors beyond your control. Who were your advisers? What are their relationships like with the programs you'd be applying to? How are your letters? How is your writing sample? How many other people in the same area are also interested? Moreover, many programs want well-rounded cohorts, meaning some people right from undergrad, some with a few years of work experience, some with MAs already, some from Ivys, some from state schools, and so on and so forth.

In sum, there's simply not a "magic bullet" with grad school applications. Have back ups.

[deldongo]

This was all very helpful! I thank you all for taking the time to offer advice. My sub-field is Atlantic/Imperial history, and I plan to work on a comparative topic. How bad is the competition there? What would help beat the competition? What would be an indication of "fit"? All the professors who replied to me mentioned other people who would be available to work with me (in addition to themselves--although they all agreed to be the primary advisers as well), and also mentioned how the general atmosphere at each particular university would be very conductive for the specific topic that I indent to work on...

Most of my back-up plans are confined to Canada, however. What are some of the better, non-ivy universities in the US, especially in terms of history departments? I'm originally from Europe, so pardon my ignorance. Also, if a person whose third language is English gets slightly below-the-average GRE marks in the verbal section, is that ever overlooked when the rest of the application is strong, with, say, a VERY strong SoP and writing sample? I believe that I can get very close to sending an excellent SoP and writing sample. The latter will be the English version of the article that was published in a small, but peer-reviewed (and thematically related to my proposed doctoral project) journal.

Thanks again!

[deldongo]

PS. Special thanks to litcrittr82. Your advice is VERY helpful. It will certainly help me focus my energy/attention on the process, and not the end result. That is the most efficient--and the least stressful--way of going through the process of applying to PhD programs.
Merci infiniment!

[wegie]

Outside the Ivies, the group around Geoffrey Parker at Ohio State is very strong (although as Parker's in his 60s now, you might want to see whether he's going to be around for much longer). I also like the look of the group at Johns Hopkins. And you should at least have a look at Oxford and Cambridge.

[wegie]

Oh, and NYU as well.

[njfresh]

Contra the poster above, one thing that I would actually not advise- and very strongly at that- is pursuing a doctorate at Oxbridge. I finished my undergraduate degree in history in the US and am now doing a master's degree at one of these institutions. You will find that there is almost no funding available outside of the major external fellowship competitions-the history faculty at the one I'm at gives a maximum of 150 pounds to every graduate student per year for dissertation research. Even then, those fellowships really only cover living and tuition costs- they don't provide much funding for researching your dissertation once you deduct these amounts and finding such funding in any sort of significant amount is all but impossible. Additionally, you'll deal with arcane libraries that have closed stacks, no Sunday hours and close no later than 10 pm on weekdays, and more bureaucracy standing in your way than you can possibly imagine. If you are somehow still interested in applying, PLEASE apply ONLY to colleges with majorly large endowments (Oxford: Christ Church, Magdalen, Oriel, Balliol, St Johns, for example; Cambridge: King's, Trinity, G & C, Emmanuel, Peterhouse), and DO NOT ACCEPT any offer at a college that is not on this list. I made this mistake and my life really is miserable as a result; one of the reasons why I'm applying to do my doctorate in the US! One argument that is often made is that it is quicker to do the doctorate in the UK (roughly 3 years for history once you come in with a 1 or 2 year masters). However, do you really want to suffer and (if you don't have funding) drive yourself into debt in a horribly expensive country and at a frustratingly arcane university?

Yes, I'm very bitter : )

[litcrittr82]

Contra the poster above, one thing that I would actually not advise- and very strongly at that- is pursuing a doctorate at Oxbridge. I finished my undergraduate degree in history in the US and am now doing a master's degree at one of these institutions. You will find that there is almost no funding available outside of the major external fellowship competitions-the history faculty at the one I'm at gives a maximum of 150 pounds to every graduate student per year for dissertation research. Even then, those fellowships really only cover living and tuition costs- they don't provide much funding for researching your dissertation once you deduct these amounts and finding such funding in any sort of significant amount is all but impossible. Additionally, you'll deal with arcane libraries that have closed stacks, no Sunday hours and close no later than 10 pm on weekdays, and more bureaucracy standing in your way than you can possibly imagine. If you are somehow still interested in applying, PLEASE apply ONLY to colleges with majorly large endowments (Oxford: Christ Church, Magdalen, Oriel, Balliol, St Johns, for example; Cambridge: King's, Trinity, G & C, Emmanuel, Peterhouse), and DO NOT ACCEPT any offer at a college that is not on this list. I made this mistake and my life really is miserable as a result; one of the reasons why I'm applying to do my doctorate in the US! One argument that is often made is that it is quicker to do the doctorate in the UK (roughly 3 years for history once you come in with a 1 or 2 year masters). However, do you really want to suffer and (if you don't have funding) drive yourself into debt in a horribly expensive country and at a frustratingly arcane university?

Yes, I'm very bitter : )

I'd be remiss not to temper this point of view one of with my own, since I've been vocal about going through the painstaking decision of choosing an Oxbridge school over a US Ivy (to which I was admitted at the last minute) for my PhD.  A few itemized points:

1) njfresh is right about funding for international students in the UK; good funding (esp. in humanities fields) is very difficult to come by, although not at all impossible to come by.  Of course in the US you often get your PhD funding all in one shot via an assistantship; as a US or Canadian national in the UK, you might have to get your funding from more than one grant/fellowship, and the combination might be internal/external.  As a Canadian national there may be more funding opportunities for you than there are for US nationals.  If you're looking into UK schools, you absolutely should be looking into funding ASAP, or yesterday for that matter.  But in the end, it's good to have demonstrated experience in winning grants (big or small), whether for tuition, external research, conference travel, etc.  And because of the unfortunate funding situation for international students at Oxbridge, you'll probably have the opportunity to learn a skill that will benefit you throughout your academic career. 

2) At least in my field at my institution, there's a big difference between doing a taught master's and a research (doctoral) degree.  I frankly don't see how they can condense master's coursework AND a master's dissertation into a one-year program; and most of the master's students I talk to feel too busy with coursework to do any research and/or apply for any grants (this is why I did a 2-year master's in the US).  But if you're doing a research degree (as you would be, since you already will have earned a master's), you may find that there is in fact more support available (funding, training, etc.) for doctoral students.  Or you may not.  After all 1) I'm not a historian and 2) 'Oxbridge' of course signifies two schools, which in many ways are two very different schools.

3) I haven't had any trouble with the libraries at my institution.  My faculty library has every book I've needed so far, and students have borrowing privileges.  Once you get used to the system, which is admittedly very different than most US university library systems, it's actually quite easy, and you begin to appreciate the advantage of having one of the world's most extensive libraries.  At my last (US Ivy) university, I used inter-library loan from time to time.  I haven't needed it yet here.  Experiences will of course vary.

4) I take issue with the idea of applying only to rich colleges.  First of all, perhaps the most trivial point: these are the most archaic colleges, with the strictest rules (must wear a gown to meals in hall, etc.).  Second, they have less available funding for postgrads than one might think, given their wealth.  Third, they're also the most undergraduate-focused colleges; which means that you might not get subsidized college accommodation; and if you do you'll likely be booted out of your own room at the end of term time so prospective undergrads can come in for interviews, or Americans can come in for abroad study, etc.  And in the college system, if you don't like your college and the people in it, you can have a really lousy (and lonely) time.  Your chances of not liking your college and the people in it increase dramatically if you're a postgrad and 70 percent of the people in your college are very privileged undergraduates. 

5) If you get into a US Ivy or a comparable US program and you get funding, I advise you to go and not give Oxbridge a second thought (unless, like me, you have a number of particular circumstances that steer you otherwise).  But I recommend that you apply to Oxbridge iff the departments have what you want academically.  People have disagreed with me when I said things like this before, but I think it's better to go to Oxbridge if you have the chance than to go to a middling US school that will put you at a disadvantage from the start.

6) One last point: I think a lot of US students (myself included) get spoiled by how much effort is made by information services and other departments in many US universities to make things as obvious and accessible as possible to generally apathetic students.  Though Oxbridge schools have large endowments by UK standards, many US students will find that some things that were easy in their US universities are slightly less easy at Oxbridge.  But most of that is adjusting to the different system, and not that the new system is wholly antiquated and inferior.  Perhaps the first step in the process of deciding whether to apply to Oxbridge is to let go of the view of these institutions as vestiges of the 15th century.  We have running water, electricity, e-journals.   

[scheherazade]

In addition to what has been mentioned above, no one can truly assess your chances based upon your personal information, because no one can see the applications of your competition.  You're not being judged absolutely, but comparatively.

I know asking for "chances" is a popular pastime on other forums.  When it comes to grad applications, anyone commenting on your chances with any certainty is full of it.  Focus on putting together the best application possible, research your options thoroughly, and apply to a reasonable range of programs.  "Safety/match/reach" doesn't really apply in grad applications, but you should look past the top ten or fifteen.

[t_r_b]

I would imagine that for Atlantic/imperial/comparative stuff, it will be all the more important to find not only a great advisor, but also a larger niche of several faculty doing related work. Ideally, you'll want to have faculty on your committee specializing in each of the regions you are comparing. That factor may help you narrow your list (or at least rank your preferences).

On a related note, in pursuing a dissertation that requires the support of multiple faculty members, it's important that said faculty members get along. When you get to the point of choosing a program, make sure to ask the current grad students to give you all the dirt on who isn't talking to whom, and why. Other things to ask: who is unhappy and planning to leave; who is rumored to be contemplating retirement; and above all, who has a reputation as a strong and supportive committee member.

Regarding your original query, from everything you've said, I expect your application will be very strong. That said, attempting to gauge your "chances" would be silly: there are many many variables far beyond your (let alone our) knowledge or control. Identify a few programs that seem like the best fit, put together a solid application, and roll the dice.