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[voxprincipalis]

VP's explanation of the two perspectives is exactly right.  I don't agree with her conclusion ("rivers of white space running down the page"), but I recognize that many people do and that more probably will as the years and decades go by.  What I found interesting in her post, though (and I say this with friendly amusement, dear voxy), is that while she adheres to the one-space sensibility, she (like many people) adds a space before and after her dashes--a practice I find odd and unnecessary.   :)

This one seems to still be under some discussion, as far as I can tell, and again it seems to be a question of how much space is most pleasing to the eye. In professional typesetting you will often see a tiny, tiny bit of space before the em-dash, which is usually achieved by manipulating the kerning (spacing between characters). I learned the space-before-dash approach when I was working for my undergraduate school newspaper, and we did it there because it helped ease spacing in the justified columns used in newspaper layout (and also because we didn't have time to get down and dirty with kerning). I don't mind *less* than a full space, but I confess my eye is bothered by absolutely no space at all, and so I appreciate it when someone has used kerning to fix this. I also hate the online practice of substituting two hyphens for an em-dash, but given both browser and cross-platform font issues, there is no guarantee that special characters like em-dashes will accurately transfer from one to another.

Same goes for curly quotes (also known as typographer's quotes), by the way.

VP

[oldadjunct]

It's not me, it's my thumb.  My thumb makes me do it.  I have talked to my thumb about this a number of times.  But each time I do, it just shrugs.  Twice.

[infopri]

I also hate the online practice of substituting two hyphens for an em-dash, but given both browser and cross-platform font issues, there is no guarantee that special characters like em-dashes will accurately transfer from one to another.

Same goes for curly quotes (also known as typographer's quotes), by the way.

VP

Agreed.  We get the two-hyphen substitution from the days of typewriters, of course, but it migrated to computers in the days when word processors were still ASCII-based.  Yes, there were ASCII codes for em-dashes and en-dashes), but few people knew what they were--and still don't, if these fora are any guide...or else people are just lazy here on the fora, as I am.  (FWIW, when I am much more meticulous in "real" writing, using Word or other applications in which the correct dashes--and the "curly" quotation marks--are more accessible.)

[voxprincipalis]

Yes, there were ASCII codes for em-dashes and en-dashes), but few people knew what they were--and still don't, if these fora are any guide...or else people are just lazy here on the fora, as I am.

I can make an em-dash on my Mac using Firefox easily—like this, for example, with no ASCII codes required—but feedback on other fora has indicated that these don't always come through.

And I put no space in, just for you. ;)

VP

[generalist_j]

Yes, there were ASCII codes for em-dashes and en-dashes), but few people knew what they were--and still don't, if these fora are any guide...or else people are just lazy here on the fora, as I am.

I can make an em-dash on my Mac using Firefox easily—like this, for example, with no ASCII codes required—but feedback on other fora has indicated that these don't always come through.

And I put no space in, just for you. ;)

VP

Please please please tell me how you do this! I'm using Firefox on my Mac.

Oh, and you wrote "em-dash," but did you actually mean "en-dash"? I think the em-dash is longer (and I don't know what it's used for).

GJ, generally confused as always

[infopri]

Yes, there were ASCII codes for em-dashes and en-dashes), but few people knew what they were--and still don't, if these fora are any guide...or else people are just lazy here on the fora, as I am.

I can make an em-dash on my Mac using Firefox easily—like this, for example, with no ASCII codes required—but feedback on other fora has indicated that these don't always come through.

And I put no space in, just for you. ;)

VP

Please please please tell me how you do this! I'm using Firefox on my Mac.

Oh, and you wrote "em-dash," but did you actually mean "en-dash"? I think the em-dash is longer (and I don't know what it's used for).

GJ, generally confused as always

Not to speak for VP, who speaks eloquently for herself, but I'm quite certain that she meant em-dash, which is indeed longer than the en-dash.  The em-dash is what we usually mean when we say "dash"—the line (pasted here from Word) that we use in a sentence to indicate a break in thought.  As I said earlier, we use en-dashes primarily (but not exclusively) to mark a range between numbers, such as 1962–1975 or pages 9–15.  (If you look closely, you'll note that the en-dashes I've pasted here a bit longer than the hyphen in "en-dash.")

And yes, vox, how did you make the em-dash in Firefox?  (I'm using a PC, which might make a difference, but perhaps I've just missed a feature somewhere.)

[voxprincipalis]

The command for making an em-dash in Firefox is the same as it is in Word: Shift-Option-Hyphen. (This is one reason I can never imagine becoming a PC girl—I don't want to deal with typing in a bunch of characters just to get a little dash.)

An en-dash can be produced by merely Option-Hyphen, and looks like this: –

Hyphen: -
En-dash: –
Em-dash: —

An em-dash is a proportional dash—as long as the point size is tall. Theoretically, it represents the length of the typeface's character "m," which takes up the whole value of the allocated character box without going outside it (as a "w" might). An en-dash is half of that, and takes up the space of the typeface's character "n."

Infopri, the no-space-before-dashes is killing me, so I'm going back to the other way, I think, unless someone can hook me up with a fractional space key combination for Firefox. ;)

VP

[infopri]

Infopri, the no-space-before-dashes is killing me, so I'm going back to the other way, I think, unless someone can hook me up with a fractional space key combination for Firefox. ;)

I'm honored that you made the effort, vox!  :)

And thank you for the instruction for producing em- and en-dashes.  Alas, my PC has no Option key, and I'm unable to find the function you describe in any of the keys I do have.  (Of course, saying this opens the door to the eternal Mac/PC debate, which no doubt dwarfs these disagreements over spaces!)

[pink_]

I don't write in MLA and I don't know what that style guide says.

It says one space. :)

Respectfully, it does not.
big_giant_head quoted this upthread.

Nobody uses three unless crack has been smoked.  

According to the latest MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers, "Because it is increasingly common for papers and manuscripts to be prepared with a single space after all concluding punctuation marks, this spacing is shown in the examples in this handbook.  As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks unless an instructor requests that you do otherwise."  Granted, this is directed to students.

As for me, I will stop using two spaces after a period when they pry my cold, dead fingers off the space bar.

[prytania3]

I don't write in MLA and I don't know what that style guide says.

It says one space. :)

Respectfully, it does not.
big_giant_head quoted this upthread.

Nobody uses three unless crack has been smoked.  

According to the latest MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers, "Because it is increasingly common for papers and manuscripts to be prepared with a single space after all concluding punctuation marks, this spacing is shown in the examples in this handbook.  As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks unless an instructor requests that you do otherwise."  Granted, this is directed to students.

As for me, I will stop using two spaces after a period when they pry my cold, dead fingers off the space bar.

That passage reads that one is better, but two will suffice.

[infopri]

I don't write in MLA and I don't know what that style guide says.

It says one space. :)

Respectfully, it does not.
big_giant_head quoted this upthread.

Nobody uses three unless crack has been smoked. 

According to the latest MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers, "Because it is increasingly common for papers and manuscripts to be prepared with a single space after all concluding punctuation marks, this spacing is shown in the examples in this handbook.  As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks unless an instructor requests that you do otherwise."  Granted, this is directed to students.

As for me, I will stop using two spaces after a period when they pry my cold, dead fingers off the space bar.

That passage reads that one is better, but two will suffice.

That's not how I read it.  It merely says that one is increasingly common.  Increasingly common doesn't mean better, by a long shot.

[oldadjunct]

That passage reads that one is better, but two will suffice.

Actually it only says, "increasingly common" without making a judgment; and, "nothing wrong" which is, as in "not wrong", implicitly "right"?  After all, it is increasingly common to see text speak in emails from students to faculty, hardly a vindication of the practice.  There is nothing wrong in seeking a little precision, is there?

[prytania3]

I don't write in MLA and I don't know what that style guide says.

It says one space. :)

Respectfully, it does not.
big_giant_head quoted this upthread.

Nobody uses three unless crack has been smoked. 

According to the latest MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers, "Because it is increasingly common for papers and manuscripts to be prepared with a single space after all concluding punctuation marks, this spacing is shown in the examples in this handbook.  As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks unless an instructor requests that you do otherwise."  Granted, this is directed to students.

As for me, I will stop using two spaces after a period when they pry my cold, dead fingers off the space bar.

That passage reads that one is better, but two will suffice.

That's not how I read it.  It merely says that one is increasingly common.  Increasingly common doesn't mean better, by a long shot.

It means one is better. They use one.

[kryptonite]

After perusing this page, all I can say is that I think you all should get yourselves over to the "nerdiest thing you do" thread and fess up.

[kilpikonna]

After perusing this page, all I can say is that I think you all should get yourselves over to the "nerdiest thing you do" thread and fess up.

You're assuming that this is as nerdy as it gets?