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[harry]

We're not exactly underwater, and I don't expect to be, but I've been thinking about the limited amount of equity in our house as I peruse this year's job listings. As an advanced assistant I can certainly stay here, though there are a few places I'd consider moving to. This past season, however, the housing market did take a hit, though not as bad as places like CA, FL, or AZ. The various costs associated with selling, along with the potential of not being able to, mitigate my enthusiasm for going out.

So I'm curious if there's anyone else out there who might be balancing the prospect of pursuing the job market with the financial costs of moving. I was on a search committee last year, and I wonder what we would have thought if a finalist turned us down owing to this sort of reason. I can't decide if we wouldn't have secretly sympathized with the candidate or been aggravated that he/she had stayed in that long. Probably both.

[aristotelian]

Harry I am in exactly your situation.  Facing a very tight market, I took a job at a research organization outside of academia.  It's a great job, but not in a great location, and eventually I would like to return to teaching.  We decided to take the plunge and buy a house on the conservative assumption that I am not likely to get a "dream job" in the near future.  In addition to the market tanking, we have also invested a ton of money into the house.  So we have a lot of financial incentive to stay, plus we are starting to get emotionally invested in the house and the area. 

However, we don't want to be in this location forever, and I miss teaching.  Because the number of jobs in my field is so small, I feel that I need to apply every year, even though we have only been in the house for six months.  If I got a job this year, it's possible that we could end up $40k or so in the hole on the house, maybe more.  Still, there are a few jobs that would be worth it for me -- not so much for the job itself, but also for the opportunity to be closer to family and raise my kid in a bigger city with more diversity and culture.  It would probably mean taking a much smaller house, but I think it could be done. 

So, my strategy is to apply for a select few jobs this year, and gradually broadening that as we build up equity to lessen the financial hit of moving. 

I am trying my best to limit my applications to places that I would seriously consider, but I could definitely imagine going through an interview and turning down an offer if the salary was too low. 

[harry]

Indeed, it's the catch-22 of continually deferring one's life choices in hopes of maintaining flexibility. At some point, we decided, we couldn't keep living for "next October" (plus my job is a decent one, and we're getting settled like you are).

We did test the market last year for, as you said, some plum jobs. I advanced, but not as a finalist, and then watched as at least two colleagues I knew in other departments got other jobs and were faced with selling their homes. One did, but in July and I'm guessing at a haircut, while the other stands empty. That guy could afford to carry that note, but I don't think we could, at least on top of wherever else we'd have to rent.

I expect I'll pursue some jobs, but it's a bit more difficult arranging recs, finding time and energy to apply, when I know that we might not take a job not because I don't want to move (the worry of all search committees looking at an advanced assistant) but because we ultimately couldn't.

[clean]

In retrospect, do either of you wish that you had rented instead?

What advice would you give to a new hire/graduate?

[harry]

Do I regret it? Yes and no, but mainly no. I was serious in saying that my wife and I finally decided we couldn't keep putting "life" off for next October to roll around. Part of the "no" is also the rental situation we were in before, which for personal rather than financial reasons we were getting sick of (but weren't willing to move for 1-2 years just to another rental). We are certainly happier in our house.

But the "yes" part? A bit of that is grass is always greener, coupled with the nostalgia that accompanies a variety of life-complicating decisions like getting a dog, getting married, having a kid, buying a house, etc. All of those, for example, prevent me (or at least complicate) just bopping off to the job market or to a summer fellowship somewhere else for 1-2 months. We also bought a nicer house than one might initially, in part because we liked the area and figured we could be in it for a while. So now there are times when we'd prefer the financial flexibility not to be tied down, even if it's just the logistics of selling a house rather than just letting a lease run out.

Advice? We waited about four years until we bought, and I'd certainly recommend at least a bit of wait. Part of that is financial, but part of it is also getting settled mentally. Make sure you're mentally settled before you lock yourself/partner in. We can say that yes, we'd be willing to live here for a long time, even if there are places we'd rather be. I can't imagine what it would be like to have this house issue on top of not being able even to tolerate one's place of living/employment.

BTW--only you and your SOs (however you might define them) can figure out what "settled mentally" is. Taking stock after a year is a good time to BEGIN this process--I don't think that you can begin to do this without that space.

[aristotelian]

Good question, clean.  I agree with everything harry has said.  No, I don't regret it in the sense that I know it was the right decision for us.  We want to own eventually, and there is no guarantee that staying in "rental limbo" would lead to a better situation.  Having given the job market three full cycles, it's unlikely that I'll find anything better.  Also, we would not have bought if we didn't think we could make it here and be happy. In three years or so when we have some equity in the house this won't be an issue.

Also, like harry, investing in the house was not the only part of the calculus for our decision to stay.  As long as we are in "rental limbo" living a nomadic lifestyle, my wife can't develop her own career, and we want to provide a stable environment for our child.

I regret buying the house only in the sense that I would like to have my cake and eat it too.  I wish that I could own the house but also be able to move at a moment's notice when a better job comes around.  Since that's not a possible, I'm pretty sure we made the right decision.

What worked for us was to put a definite time limit on the job market limbo.  When my wife got to the point where she couldn't take it any more, we said that this year would be it.  That limit will be different for every couple.  All you can do is strike a balance between your career and the overall well being of your family.  Some things are more important than finding your "dream job."     

[helpful]

From the subject line it sounds like you are in Galveston or Houston or that area?

[johnstevenson]

I prefer to be flexible and keep my options open. As Phil Greenspun puts it - "Property owners are boring":

http://philip.greenspun.com/materialism/early-retirement/where-to-live

:)

[harry]

Helpful--at the risk of missing the tongue-in-cheek joke (which I recognize could be there) I was using "underwater" in a financial sense--i.e. that one's house might now be worth less than one paid for it.

But that definition would probably also apply to many houses in Galveston as well.

[helpful]

Helpful--at the risk of missing the tongue-in-cheek joke (which I recognize could be there) I was using "underwater" in a financial sense--i.e. that one's house might now be worth less than one paid for it.

Thanks. I had never heard of that expression before.

[biologist_]

Helpful--at the risk of missing the tongue-in-cheek joke (which I recognize could be there) I was using "underwater" in a financial sense--i.e. that one's house might now be worth less than one paid for it.

Thanks. I had never heard of that expression before.

"Upside-down" is the other expression that is widely used in newspaper articles these days, usually in an expression such as "upside-down on their mortgage."

[macaroon]

This happened in my department last year - the candidate agreed to come and at the last minute (by that I mean June) backed out because of this housing issue.  He discovered that his house was worth just slightly more than half of what he had paid.  Even if his house sold, he wouldn't have been able to afford to pay the bank and pay rent.   My department was heartbroken over the whole thing.  I don't think anybody was angry with the candidate, though.

We rented between my PhD and tenure track position, even though we had two kids.  We didn't want to be shovelling snow and raking leaves and cleaning gutters in addition to taking care of the two babies.  We couldn't have predicted what happened with the housing market, but that makes us additionally glad that we didn't buy.

[the_honey_badger]

"The house" has become an issue for us too.  I'm in a place where houses are plentiful and cheap. Not buying brought me all sorts of grief---"do you want to stay?"  I did have fears of buying pre-tenure because I have known of people who got stuck with houses and a tenure denial.  I'd mention that, the fact that without young children we had no imperative to settle in a school district and so on. Still, here that raised eyebrows.

In year four, prices were great, we were offered a very good rate on a mortgage, and we really needed to move to a three bedroom apt to have room for office/guests. Comparing apartment costs vs. three bedroom houses:  a house would cost 20.00 more a month. Really.  So, we bought a nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath modest ranch in great condition and did only "cosmetic" and minor upgrades ourselves. Great house, but...  even here the market has slumped a little and three years later selling it for exactly what we paid would net us about 100.00 today if we paid (as is now customary in our area) all closing costs. Chances are, to move it we'd have to drop it 10K or more based on what a realtor friend said about local housing.  Given our location, the U is by far the major employer beyond subsistance wages and the movement is "out" not into the area, we have an annual 3 month selling window and would have to price even more aggressively to get out.  The rental market here is also overstocked with units at the moment because of the last building frenzy.

So, we aren't 100K or more in the barrel like some but it does become an issue. Chances are, if I applied for anything in my field this year we'd have to go to a much higher COL area and we'd have about 10K or more in debt, moving expenses and higher housing costs. We'd like to look at moving but right now I don't think we really can.

[prytania3]

I have a house for sale in an area of Virginia where the housing market isn't considered depressed. Still, no one is even looking at it. I will probably take it off the market and let the renters have some peace.

[achylles]

Pardon the pun, but I'm in the same "boat".  I bought my house while still in graduate school.  In fact, the house I bought is down the street it.  Despite a good local market, until recently breaking even in a sale was impossible.

I can say honestly that being a home owner has prevented me from pursuing visiting positions and residencies because most are outside of the area in which I live.  On the other hand, I live in a large metro area with 15+ colleges and universities, so its not difficult to find adjunct work in the mean time.  Thankfully, there are also a surprising amount of TT positions this year.

That doesn't necessarily mean I want to stay here, mind you. 

I've had some time to consider my situation, so here's a few ideas that, in combination, might help:

• If you find a good position outside your market, consider turning your existing property into a rental.  While not ideal, the income will likely match your expenditure while you get established.  It could buy you time.
• Some institutions have inexpensive on-campus or near-campus rental housing available to faculty.
• Consider refinancing your home.  If there's a significant increase in your family's income by taking the position, you might be able afford to keep paying the mortgage while you wait for the market to improve.  Just be careful -- states like Texas require you to wait a year before selling your home after a refinance.
• Consider commuting for up to a year and observe the market changes.  Absence from one's family is admittedly horrible, but may be feasible depending upon the distance and frequency with which you can come home.
• See what kind of relocation expenses, if any, your institution offers.  If they pay for the relocation, you might be able to put more of your own money towards the property in question.

I hope this is useful!