topos
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« on: September 08, 2008, 03:58:08 PM » |
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Last spring semester I had a student which I assumed was older than 65 based on some of the personal communication I received. (This was an online course at a community college.) Unfortunately this student did particularly poorly, not turning in assignments at all, turning them in several weeks late, and nearly always failing to follow directions. In the end, I thought I was rather generous for assigning a "D" to this student instead of failing her. I gave the other students in the course an "A" or a "B".
I received a rather interesting request from the assistant dean to consider raising this student's grade to a "C" based on her age an the amount of work she put into the project. (A "C" for effort?) Note that at no time did I receive any request from this student during the course for special accommodations due to disabilities of some sort. There were, at times, vague references to some kind of medical problem, which I asked if she would like me to make accommodations for, but she declined.
On a related note, I used a objective grading rubric, clearly printed in the course syllabus, which makes altering the grade even more difficult.
As a relatively new adjunct I am torn between what I think it right versus what I think is compassionate. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's likely that this student will go onto a career in the field in which she is getting a certificate, but I suppose there's a principle here. But still, I feel bad.
Has anyone else here faced this issue? Should senior citizens be held to a lower standard or not? Trust me, I'm torn...
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prytania3
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 04:12:48 PM » |
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I have really mixed feelings on this one. My mother is 77 and returned to college last year to pursue her BS in Human Services (human resources?) Well, anyway, I know you weren't her prof because she took 2 online courses and got A's in both. She's not wild about online courses, but she had to take a couple to fit into her schedule. She works very hard and turns in all her work on time. She did have a technical problem with one exam but the prof was nice about it.
Judging from what I've seen of my mother's work in English, no one cut her a bit of slack due to her age. I would have definitely given her an A in that class (based on her essays), and she only got a B.
As a prof I'd probably cut a senior a bit of slack in that I'd give "the benefit of the doubt grade." If the person was in between grades, I'd give the higher one.
It sounds like the senior in your class just slacked off. I'd try explaining to the dean that the D was a gift. OTOH, I probably wouldn't go to war about it.
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Clowns, I tell you. Clowns.
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collegekidsmom
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 09:48:18 PM » |
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It just doesn't seem fair to all people over 65 that they would get graded differently for being "old" or something. I would hope that if I were to take a class in my sixties I would be held to the same standards as everyone else. How depressing to be treated differently just because you hit some arbitrary age. I guess if John McCain can consider being President from ages 72-76, "senior citizens" should be expected to work for their grades just like other students. If the grading rubric were modified for older adults, then it would have to be modified for all kinds of other situations. Not fair. I'd say the person who doesn't do the work, doesn't explain, and turns in substandard work- fails.
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prytania3
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 09:57:16 PM » |
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It just doesn't seem fair to all people over 65 that they would get graded differently for being "old" or something. I would hope that if I were to take a class in my sixties I would be held to the same standards as everyone else. How depressing to be treated differently just because you hit some arbitrary age. I guess if John McCain can consider being President from ages 72-76, "senior citizens" should be expected to work for their grades just like other students. If the grading rubric were modified for older adults, then it would have to be modified for all kinds of other situations. Not fair. I'd say the person who doesn't do the work, doesn't explain, and turns in substandard work- fails.
Well, as I said, my mother is 77 but she thinks McCain is too old and stupid to be president. No country for old men.
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Clowns, I tell you. Clowns.
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booking
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 10:14:57 PM » |
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I had something similar happen last year. A student who was likely in her 60's (based on personal info she shared in class about her youth) got a B and was angered at me, claiming that she was at her "personal best" in my course, and she asked for an A. Before I recorded her grade, I did consider giving her a C, because she always turned in work incomplete and never could remember when deadlines were, what the assignment stipulated, etc., and bothered me endlessly in lecture about it. . .The B was a gift. But yes, I think the OP's question is a sincere one, and I am looking forward to other posters' responses.
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larryc
Hu hatin'
Distinguished Senior Member
    
Posts: 18,285
Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 10:27:51 PM » |
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Ask the assistant dean to change your job classification from "adjunct" to "tenure track," based on your age and the effort you have put into job.
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hollow_man
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 11:51:44 PM » |
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I'm assuming that you have a research agenda, or career goals, or a family, or friends, or something else to occupy your thoughts when I say this:
Who... frickin... cares?
The school makes a little money off seniors citizens. The seniors keep themselves occupied. Their grades matter not at all to anyone other than them (if that). Give them whatever grades the institutional culture demands, and spend your time and energy on things that matter to you.
Senior citizen grade inflation ... not among the greatest problems facing our nation.
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"Suffer no thirst in the presence of beer!" -- Inscription of Nebnetjeru
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the_myth
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 12:15:59 AM » |
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I'm assuming that you have a research agenda, or career goals, or a family, or friends, or something else to occupy your thoughts when I say this:
Who... frickin... cares?
The school makes a little money off seniors citizens. The seniors keep themselves occupied. Their grades matter not at all to anyone other than them (if that). Give them whatever grades the institutional culture demands, and spend your time and energy on things that matter to you.
Senior citizen grade inflation ... not among the greatest problems facing our nation.
slippery slope age discrimination grade inflation abuse of power by dean
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prytania3
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 06:46:36 AM » |
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I'm assuming that you have a research agenda, or career goals, or a family, or friends, or something else to occupy your thoughts when I say this:
Who... frickin... cares?
The school makes a little money off seniors citizens. The seniors keep themselves occupied. Their grades matter not at all to anyone other than them (if that). Give them whatever grades the institutional culture demands, and spend your time and energy on things that matter to you.
Senior citizen grade inflation ... not among the greatest problems facing our nation.
Actually my mother intends to get a job in her field when she graduates.
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Clowns, I tell you. Clowns.
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yellowtractor
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 09:16:53 AM » |
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No. You give the student the grade the student earns.
I'm actually shocked by this. Admittedly I get few non-traditional students in my classes (at private SLAC's), but the ones I do get tend to be earnest and extremely reliable when it comes to completing the class requirements. Occasionally they ask for special dispensations for reasons a typical undergrad wouldn't; I handle those requests on a case-by-case basis. I've never had an older student explicitly or implicitly argue for a higher grade based on some quality or criteria beyond his or her actual performance in my class.
If your student suffers from a medical condition that would or should have required special accommodation, s/he should have made the appropriate arrangements with the dean's office, and/or the disabilities office, if your school has one.
Pry and Hollow_Man, I probably would go to war over it. I agree that senior citizen grade inflation is not, per se, a major problem in the academy. But administrators changing grades at will to suit themselves--whatever the reason--or pressuring faculty to do so--is, and it's a problem I feel very strongly about.
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i think is good for every one only the think is that we will always scares about that.
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hollow_man
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 11:19:42 AM » |
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I just think you've got to pick your battles, especially as an adjunct. This is not one I would pick.
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"Suffer no thirst in the presence of beer!" -- Inscription of Nebnetjeru
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larryc
Hu hatin'
Distinguished Senior Member
    
Posts: 18,285
Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 11:31:29 AM » |
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Ask the assistant dean to change your job classification from "adjunct" to "tenure track," based on your age and the effort you have put into job.
By the way, I really do think you should do this. In fact, I double-dog dare you.
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mdwlark
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2008, 12:38:47 PM » |
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Is the dean going to make this same request of this student's instructors next semester? The institution is choosing to keep you on the fringes by your adjunct status; you aren't paid enough for this. I don't know that an adjunct needs to be invested in fighting institutional battles, but this institution is luring you into an institutional battle anyway. There is a huge power differential. If you don't agree to the dean's request, you risk becoming too inconvenient to rehire. Even an untenured TT person is in a stronger, safer position. It is a really unfair position to put you in. Since they have put you in it, you have to decide if this is a battle you want to take on. Weigh how this affects you--your career, your teaching opportunities, how much you want to keep the job and for how long, how much you value your right to use independent judgment, your sense of fairness and how badly it is violated. Whatever is good for you is more important than the issues around this one student. When I was younger I would have fought them. Now I would put up a weak, reasonable argument and give in quickly as needed. That is because I have been beaten up a lot, and I choose battles carefully. I also choose environments carefully. In some cultures your decision would be allowed, in other cultures the only way out would be to cave in. The dean should be the one worrying about doing the right thing. Is there a department chair between you and the dean that you could talk to? This may be his or her battle to take on.
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geonerd
Creator of the award for heroic avoidance of dangling prepositions AND a
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Posts: 5,577
Do not take the bait
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 03:53:07 PM » |
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I would reply briefly and honestly to the dean that the student was borderline failing, and you rounded UP her final score to a D. And just leave it at that, no elaboration needed. If your dean wants to change the grade then he will, with or without your consent.
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"Is this the water?" "Yes."
Traffic doesn't care what I think of it.
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veleda
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2008, 08:23:50 AM » |
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I think this whole idea is so incredibly insulting. I am a 54 year old grad student and if I thought for a second that a professor was cutting me some slack because of my age I'd be furious. It's just so so patronizing!
By the end of my first Fall semester I needed a blood transfusion, so I scheduled it during break. I failed a class that first semester, which was devastating, but I've survived it. By the end of my second Fall semester I needed a cardiac catherization, and I scheduled that during break, too. Not singing my own praises here but want to make the point that as an older student with "medical issues" I wasn't cut any slack. As much as I hate that F on my transcript, I love the B+ I got on retaking it - I know I earned it. I definitely have to put in more time studying, my memory is terrible, and I get tired by 9:30 at night, so I pace myself, write everything down, and do all the other things that good students (of any age) need to do in order to succeed in school.
Wow - I'm really steamed up about this thread! Hit a nerve here...
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