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[pink_]

Some of you are truly oversensitive.  Caring for a child or bringing one to a meeting has nothing to do with disrespect towards you.  It's not all about you all the time.

Well... honey... it's ain't about you and your kid all the time either.

Of course not.  That's why I arrange for child care and do my best to separate the two.  But...sometimes things happen.  It's not a reflection on the coworkers.

It's a mistaken dichotomy that either the parent will respect coworkers by leaving the child at home, or s/he will disrespect them by bringing the child.

Perhaps, but Scherazade, you are lumping in those parents who bring their child to campus very once in a blue moon due to some emergency or whatever in with the OPs situation which sounds like something else entirely.

[scheherazade]

Some of you are truly oversensitive.  Caring for a child or bringing one to a meeting has nothing to do with disrespect towards you.  It's not all about you all the time.

Well... honey... it's ain't about you and your kid all the time either.

Of course not.  That's why I arrange for child care and do my best to separate the two.  But...sometimes things happen.  It's not a reflection on the coworkers.

It's a mistaken dichotomy that either the parent will respect coworkers by leaving the child at home, or s/he will disrespect them by bringing the child.

Perhaps, but Scherazade, you are lumping in those parents who bring their child to campus very once in a blue moon due to some emergency or whatever in with the OPs situation which sounds like something else entirely.

I absolutely am not.  A child care emergency can be a few hours.  It can also be a few weeks.  It's not always easy to find safe child care, and babysitters are notoriously unreliable.

Some of you are truly oversensitive.  Caring for a child or bringing one to a meeting has nothing to do with disrespect towards you.  It's not all about you all the time.

Well... honey... it's ain't about you and your kid all the time either.

Oddly, at the business where my spouse works, no one ever has an emergency that requires them to have a child in the office for several hours. In fact, there are countless offices and workplaces in cities around the country where people's emergencies never cause them to bring the kids to work during a meeting.

Sorry to be so sarcastic, but now we're talking about costs. For most people, if their childcare arrangements fall through, bringing the kid to work for a few hours would cost them their customers, clients, or even their job. Or it is simply impossible ("Watch this dvd, honey! Mommy has to operate on somebody!"). For many of us at the university, this isn't the case. The cost of bringing the kid to work is very low (lost productivity for yourself and the people you deal with that day, some bad will among colleagues), so the cost of other options becomes relatively even higher.

You can argue that we should have a workplace in which children are welcome or that we overvalue productivity or that the university should offer free childcare, or that it's unfair that women usually have to deal with this situation, or whatever you like. But I don't buy the argument that everyone has to accept this choice (i.e. bringing the kid to work) as necessary and unavoidable, or that we should pretend it has no cost to anyone.

Perhaps, instead of assuming the differences are in the people, we can consider the possibility that availability of decent child care differs from place to place.

We can also consider that some jobs pay well enough to ensure child care availability (which is why parent doesn't need to bring kid to watch him/her operate).

Of those parents that have child care crises and jobs that don't allow this flexibility, it is very often the case that they must put their child in unsafe conditions, whether that be a substandard day care, a 10 year old sibling or neighbor babysitting, or left home alone.  I know of at least three families when I lived in Chicago that left their infants home alone in the crib while they worked a few times.

To be less dire, many people still live close enough to extended family, so child care emergencies can often be handled by them.  Academics, however, are generally required to move where the jobs are, and the jobs are rarely near family.  In some cases, the job isn't even near the spouse.

The argument that these parents should just man up and be professional is a bit of a case of Ivory Tower syndrome.

[wanderer]

The problem is that there are gradations for all of this.  We've gone, in the last hundred years, from societies where children were part of production to one (thankfully) where they aren't.  I think as academics one of our few perks is that we have some give in scheduling.  In other employment I've often seen admin assistants, fast food workers, or cleaners who bring their kids with them.  For commuting business times full-week daycare makes sense, but for many academics it's not feasible. Many of us went into academia in part because it is more family friendly and flexible.

The OP also has not put a ballpark number on the times when he's been disturbed.  If he's attended multiple meetings where there are 30 people inconvenienced, this is far different from a case where he's gone to two small departmental meetings where the kid came along.  He hasn't clarified this.  The baby's under a year and she was on maternity leave for a big chunk of the time.  Give me a break.

[grasshopper]

Well, there's the larger debate about whether accommodations should be made for people who need to bring in their kids every once in a while (absolutely!).

And then there's the more particular debate about how children should be accommodated. Airplane games and impolite distractions that could be avoided should not be accommodated. Ever. And the kids running around the building whenever Mommy is teaching a class? Unacceptable.

Sure, bring your kids to work if you can't make other arrangements. But out of respect for your colleagues, don't treat work like a McDonald's Playland.

[goldenapple]

Perhaps, instead of assuming the differences are in the people, we can consider the possibility that availability of decent child care differs from place to place.

The argument that these parents should just man up and be professional is a bit of a case of Ivory Tower syndrome.

I used the word "cost" because it indicates something that is neither inherent in the person who pays nor in the thing purchased nor in the circumstances of the deal, but is in the relationship between among those things.

[anthroid]

Some of you are truly oversensitive.  Caring for a child or bringing one to a meeting has nothing to do with disrespect towards you.  It's not all about you all the time.

Well... honey... it's ain't about you and your kid all the time either.

Oddly, at the business where my spouse works, no one ever has an emergency that requires them to have a child in the office for several hours. In fact, there are countless offices and workplaces in cities around the country where people's emergencies never cause them to bring the kids to work during a meeting.

Sorry to be so sarcastic, but now we're talking about costs. For most people, if their childcare arrangements fall through, bringing the kid to work for a few hours would cost them their customers, clients, or even their job. Or it is simply impossible ("Watch this dvd, honey! Mommy has to operate on somebody!"). For many of us at the university, this isn't the case. The cost of bringing the kid to work is very low (lost productivity for yourself and the people you deal with that day, some bad will among colleagues), so the cost of other options becomes relatively even higher.

You can argue that we should have a workplace in which children are welcome or that we overvalue productivity or that the university should offer free childcare, or that it's unfair that women usually have to deal with this situation, or whatever you like. But I don't buy the argument that everyone has to accept this choice (i.e. bringing the kid to work) as necessary and unavoidable, or that we should pretend it has no cost to anyone.

You raise some good points, I think.  I also think that just about everyone is differentiating from a child care emergency and a habit of regularly bringing children to work.

I know I'm going to get flamed.  I just know it.  But children do not belong everywhere.  I know of no society, other than ours (and maybe Canada, though I stand ready to be corrected), in which it is reasonable for parents to assume that their children are welcome on a regular basis (again, not the emergency situation) and must be entertained by strangers (e.g., the department's administrative assistant has to serve as babysitter--most definitely not part of the job description).  Is there no space left for adults other than a strip joint?

[scheherazade]

Some of you are truly oversensitive.  Caring for a child or bringing one to a meeting has nothing to do with disrespect towards you.  It's not all about you all the time.

Well... honey... it's ain't about you and your kid all the time either.

Oddly, at the business where my spouse works, no one ever has an emergency that requires them to have a child in the office for several hours. In fact, there are countless offices and workplaces in cities around the country where people's emergencies never cause them to bring the kids to work during a meeting.

Sorry to be so sarcastic, but now we're talking about costs. For most people, if their childcare arrangements fall through, bringing the kid to work for a few hours would cost them their customers, clients, or even their job. Or it is simply impossible ("Watch this dvd, honey! Mommy has to operate on somebody!"). For many of us at the university, this isn't the case. The cost of bringing the kid to work is very low (lost productivity for yourself and the people you deal with that day, some bad will among colleagues), so the cost of other options becomes relatively even higher.

You can argue that we should have a workplace in which children are welcome or that we overvalue productivity or that the university should offer free childcare, or that it's unfair that women usually have to deal with this situation, or whatever you like. But I don't buy the argument that everyone has to accept this choice (i.e. bringing the kid to work) as necessary and unavoidable, or that we should pretend it has no cost to anyone.

You raise some good points, I think.  I also think that just about everyone is differentiating from a child care emergency and a habit of regularly bringing children to work.

I know I'm going to get flamed.  I just know it.  But children do not belong everywhere.  I know of no society, other than ours (and maybe Canada, though I stand ready to be corrected), in which it is reasonable for parents to assume that their children are welcome on a regular basis (again, not the emergency situation) and must be entertained by strangers (e.g., the department's administrative assistant has to serve as babysitter--most definitely not part of the job description).  Is there no space left for adults other than a strip joint?

What, you don't bring kids to strip joints?  It's just me, then?

I actually had to bring kids to work on two occasions while I was a teacher.  Once, I found out that the gap-fill babysitter (who came highly recommended) was possibly abusing my kids.  I needed to bring the baby one day.  Another time, my sitter had an major family emergency involving her son, and I could not reach the backup sitter.  Both times, my principal was great about letting the kids come to class.  They sat quietly through class (the baby slept, the son read and drew pictures).  My free periods S played, watched TV, and helped the gym teacher during his free period (his request).  The students did their "Awww" thing, and then we moved on.  If anything, the students were better, because they watched their language and behavior in front of the kids.  Upon reflection, maybe I should have brought the kids more often.

I had to bring my daughter to work one day when she was three.  Well, I gave my boss the option of having me stay home that day, but he said bringing her was no problem.  I worked in an office, and other employees had brought their kids on occasional days as well.  She sat, colored, watched a movie, and read books.

At no time did anyone's world fall apart.  At no time did anyone miss out on vital information.  At no time did the kids disrupt the normal workings of the office or school.

If they had acted like hellions, I agree it would have been bad.  In both cases, my bosses preferred I bring the kids and work than stay home and deal with the emergency.

[gourmetless]

I have a colleague who had her first child almost a year ago....  [She meets her classes and rushes home to be with infant]... If you need to meet with her for any reason, professional or social, she brings the baby.  Department meetings, grant meetings, meetings with grad students, etc.... This is not a quiet baby, she frequently nurses during these meetings, plays "airplane," coos, etc. 

A re-visit to the OP seems in order.  This particular colleague is clearly making her motherhood a primary focus of her professional life, as she performs 'The Good Mommie' routine and shows off her progeny and her parental prowess to whoever happens to be in her general vicinity.  And, yes, I find this kind of performance to be gratuitous and distracting.  And unprofessional, and out-of-place. 

[ideagirl]

I know of no society, other than ours (and maybe Canada, though I stand ready to be corrected), in which it is reasonable for parents to assume that their children are welcome on a regular basis (again, not the emergency situation) and must be entertained by strangers (e.g., the department's administrative assistant has to serve as babysitter--most definitely not part of the job description).  Is there no space left for adults other than a strip joint?

Maybe not, but take a look at the childcare options in most other societies. Most developed nations have better childcare options than we do. I mean, in addition to starting public school at age 3, France has halte-garderies, neighborhood places where you can, with no prior notice, just drop off your kid for couple of hours while you go grocery shopping! And in most underdeveloped nations, people tend to live very close to their families and have plenty of grandparents, aunts, etc. to help; alternatively, some underdeveloped countries have child labor--no need for childcare; the kid's at work!--and/or extremely traditional gender roles, such that women aren't outside the home and thus there's no need for nonmaternal childcare.

Maybe we've developed this ridiculously child-centered culture in part BECAUSE our society hasn't responded to the needs of parents in search of decent childcare options.

[johnstevenson]

Some of my colleagues had come to meetings with their babies, and I agree that this may be a major distraction.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

By making the conversation about child/no child policies, it becomes an insoluble debate. 

On the other hand, few would deny that if a colleague's behavior causes disruptions, distractions, etc for another, it is inappropriate, whether it is from a noisy child, a sheddy dog, a creaky office chair, strong perfume, whatever.  Opposing disruptive behavior for its own sake is a perfectly rational point of view, and I support it.  That is how these discussions should ideally be framed.

If you simply don't want to have to look at a perfectly silent, well behaved child, or if the knowledge that one is running in the halls - even though you have your office door shut and can't hear it - is deeply troubling to you, then I think you are the one with a problem.  This is what some complaints based on "professionalism" seem to me to be.  - DvF

[ladyteach]

I would have let it pass.  Maybe the mother was stuck for a babysitter and really wanted to hear you speak.

[expatinuk]

It's the farking annual child care debate... *sigh*

[navelgazer]

I have a 4 month old and I'm very new to all of this. Oh, and I started on the TT a month ago. So, my question is:

What faculty meetings are so important that one cannot simply stay home with the baby when childcare falls through? (Serious question)

Further observations:
1. LarryC has been rocking this thread.
1a. That is a legitimate and correct use of "rock" as a verb.
2. Parents seem to fall into two broad categories: those that think their child is disturbing the peace the second he/she makes a sound (me!) and those that don't notice glass shattering at their child's cry.
3. I would do everything possible to avoid nursing in a meeting, that's just me. However, a mother generally doesn't "choose to nurse" at a specific time or place. Well, at least not at 4 months. Maybe at a year it's different.
3a. Yes, that was me with the almost-exploding boobs at the last faculty meeting. I'll pump before the next one.

[booking]

What faculty meetings are so important that one cannot simply stay home with the baby when childcare falls through? (Serious question)

I am surprised that you would ask this. If you're new to the TT, then you should attend every meeting possible.  They help you understand how your institution functions, who is in what camp, and you will have to vote on measures that affect your work, your schedule, your pay/student ratio, and many more important things.

It's like a student saying, "What class is so important that I can't skip it to get home early for Fall Break?"