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[dancewithme407]

Ok, I need some honest input. Seriously. I just took the GRE for the second time and still cannot get above a 910! (actually, I lost 10 points the second time a took it!)

I entered into college with a 4.0 High School GPA and, due to many personal issues (brain surgery, death of my father, etc.), my world was turned upside down during college. I graduated in 6 year with a gpa of 2.36. Despite what the numbers say, I have always been a determined and hard working student. No one can anticipate what live will bring your way. At the time, I was thinking only of graduating and never thought that my gpa would matter, as I didn't anticipate going on to grad school.

One year after graduating, I have decided to pursue a Masters in Political Science (same as my undergrad). I have taught High School History and now I want to be a professor. My thought is this: if I get a spectacular GRE score, it will make up for my less than adequate GPA. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be happening for me. I am currently working on my application for University of Central Florida. I have three EXCELLENT recommendations from my undergrad professors. I want this degree, and am willing to work hard for it. Should I take the GRE a THIRD time? Will my score get ANY better?

Do I SERIOUSLY have ANY chance of continuing my education? Or am I without hope?

Any honest advice or dose of reality is welcome and appreciated.

[helpful]

Apply to a university that doesn't require the GRE. There are many.

[dancewithme407]

I haven't found any in our area that offers Poly Sci and also doesn't require the GRE.

[jacaranda_]

OP:  I'm going to suggest to the mods that they move your thread to the "Grad School" forum, which is where people usually post these kinds of questions (you might find reading many of those threads helpful in thinking about your plans).

I'm not in your field, but a few questions:  since an MA will qualify you to teach at a community college but not a 4-year college or university, were you planning to go further and do the PhD after finishing the MA?  Have you done some research on what the job prospects are like in your field?  Even after finishing the advanced degree, you may still find it difficult to find the sort of job you want, and you may have a pack of student loans by then.

If you want to improve your chances of admission, you might do some work in the public or private sector related to possible areas of study and research before going back to grad school.  I never advise my students to rush back to grad school -- a full two or three years off is not a bad idea.  Others will probably respond with more specific advice about your "numbers" challenges.  Good luck.

[dancewithme407]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry for posting in the wrong forum.

Yes, the PhD was my goal.

Thank you very much for your response and suggestion.

[jacaranda_]

No worries, new posters often find the Forum breakdowns a bit confusing.  There aren't any moderators online at the moment (they obviously have more interesting social lives than the rest of us!), so if they decide to move it, that may happen tomorrow morning.

I think your best plan in this case might be to do your MA at a program with a solid reputation, and then from there do your best to get into a top-notch program for finishing the PhD.  But above all else, really do your research about the profession.  You'll get a lot of information just on these boards.

[polly_mer]

Hmmm.   A GPA of 2.36 and a GRE of 910 are abysmal.  Coaching can raise a GRE score, but merely having a spectacular GRE score is probably not going to help you much.

I would suggest instead bulking up other parts of your experience.  I'm not in Poli Sci.  However, in my field, a student with a record of research and involvement in the field can overcome deficiencies in GPA and GRE.  If your undergraduate professors are willing to go to bat for you, is there any way you can register as a special student with them, take a few graduate classes, and do a little research?  Can you at least present at student conferences and get your research record started? 

Hardworking and determined is good, but you will have to demonstrate that you can do graduate work just to get admitted.  Low GPA and GRE mean that you have to show outstanding research potential.  The easiest way to do that is to have research, at least conference proceedings, to show the admissions committee.  I know people who were terrible students but great researchers.  If you can show yourself to be one of those people, you have a shot at getting admitted to a program.

I don't want to dissuade you from getting more education or following a dream, but have you thought hard about what you are doing?  Have you talked with those undergraduate professors about what being a professor is like?  Have you done any investigation into what the job market is like for people in your field? 

Oh and a word of advice on your goals.  A master's degree in Political Science will not get you a tenure-track position as a professor.  You will need a Ph.D. from a good school, be willing to relocate anywhere in the country, and have a substantial research record just to have a shot at one of those jobs.

I won't say that you can't go to graduate school and become a professor, but I will say that you are starting in the hole and will therefore require extra effort just to get to where the other applicants are starting.

[On preview] Follow Jacaranda's advice, except don't take out any loans.  If you can't get admitted with full funding or have a side job while doing a parttime master's degree, don't go.  The fora is full of stories about people who took years to find the job they wanted after graduation or even worse, decided not to finish the degree and still ended up paying back a substantial sum in loans.  Have a backup plan for other things you can do and don't take out any loans.

[dancewithme407]

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience.

[king_ghidorah]

Hello Dance, my field is different than yours, so take whatever I write with a grain or two.

My undergrad GPA was not nearly as low as yours, but it was definitely lackluster except in my area (I too had some serious personal problems).  Where I distinguished myself was in my master's program where I did considerably better.  So, sure, there is always hope.  And I think it helped that I was very strong in my discipline as an undergrad.  In the end, I got into a PhD program that was frankly much better than I deserved and I am now writing the diss.  I still feel like I am playing catch-up.

One caveat: make sure that you are really, really want the professorship.  You will probably not get funding for your program.  Nor, probably, will you get into a great fantabulous super-duper program at this point - even if you put the pedal to the metal.  This will make a difference where you work and what kind of jobs you get down the line.  Academia is one of the few careers where the follies of your youth will follow you.

Nevertheless, it is a cool lifestyle and a cool profession and I've never regretted it.

Good luck.

[sciencephd]

You need to find some kind of generally accepted metric that indicates that you are a good prospect for grad school.  Typically, a very good GRE score, in the context of a low GPA, will indicate that perhaps "life experience" did interfere with your undergrad performance.  But the combination of low GPA and GRE actually reinforce each other.  So you need to do something radical to indicate that you would do well in grad school.  I would not take the GRE again, unless there is good reason to think you will substantially (ie by hundreds of points) increase your score. 

The only other piece of information in your post is that you work hard.  What, aside from hard work, convinces you that grad school and academia is where you should be ?

[dancewithme407]

Thank you king and science, for taking the time to help me out and answer my questions, and especially for the encouragement. After considering all of this, my attention is drawn to the Personal Statement portion of the grad school application. This may be my only chance to "shine" or to prove myself.

Here's my angle: To focus on the progression of my gpa in undergrad and monitor when it was better and worse. For example, in examining my transcripts, I see that, at one time, I took only 9 credit hours, all online, and earned D's in all of them. the following semester, I was taking 15 credits and working full-time, and earned a 3.5 GPA for the semester. Obviously, this shows that I am capable of "making the grade" but circumstances in life caused my schoolwork to take a backseat to my academics. What I am asking for is another chance to prove that I can indeed handle the work. I was thinking that, perhaps, I could be accepted as a "non-degree seeking student". In this case, with the particular school I'm looking at, I can take up to 9 credit hours before being accepted into my program. I would be more than willing to do this. Does this seem feasible?   

[kedves]

Your target school offers a few MA degrees in your field, but the basic political science master's program requires a "competitive" GRE and a 3.0 GPA in the last 60 hours of your undergrad program.  It doesn't sound as if you will be admitted there.  I have a political science BA and changed to sociology for grad school.  I don't know of any reputable programs that will admit someone with your scores and experience.  Grad admissions committees need to bet on candidates they believe can complete the degree program, and your scores don't make the case that you can do that.  The personal statement can't compensate for your scores.  You may be capable of getting through grad school, but the school wants probability rather than possibility.

Like others here, I advise researching the career(s) more fully.  The American Political Science Association has a brochure about careers with graduate degrees for $5; you should also information-interview professors and others about the full range of careers (not limited to professor).

Grad school is unlikely to happen for you this year.  If you are set on the PhD or a policy degree such as an MPA, one approach would be to work for 4-5 years in a relevant field while making progress on a strategy for admission.  Another tactic is to find a non-online university with a non-traditional (open admission) graduate program that will allow you to take political science grad courses, and ace those. 

...
I could be accepted as a "non-degree seeking student". In this case, with the particular school I'm looking at, I can take up to 9 credit hours before being accepted into my program. I would be more than willing to do this. Does this seem feasible?   

Yes, just like that--BUT work while you're doing it.   (It's convenient, with free tuition,if you can get a job at the university.)  Don't go into debt for a degree that you may not be able to complete.  I don't advise going full-time because I am not sure that you can pull it off, and if you blow it this time, you'll be worse off than you were at the outset.  I'm sorry if that sounds gloomy; I'm cautious by nature.

You can probably improve your GRE scores, but you will need to work filling in your knowledge gaps rather than simple test prepping.  Until your practice GRE scores increase to the level you need, don't take the real GRE again.

[king_ghidorah]

Kedves has good advice.  One of the things I did do was find a summer class that I could take for 500 level credits at the school where I did my master's work - I worked my bloomers off and asked the professor for a letter of recommendation, which he did beautifully.  This was a school that was somewhere on the 4th tier, by the way, which opened doors later despite its low standing.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

After considering all of this, my attention is drawn to the Personal Statement portion of the grad school application. This may be my only chance to "shine" or to prove myself.

No decent graduate program is going to accept you based on your personal statement.

Your high school gpa is not evidence of potential for talent in your chosen field; even at my middling university, the average HS gpa is 3.4.  HS students with 4.0 are a dime a dozen.

Not everyone has the right combination of talents to be a college professor (the occupation for which PhD prograns are primarily designed).  That doesn't mean it is better or harder than other occupations, but it does require a particular skillset.  Your scores might or might not be evidence that your talents lie elsewhere, but for your own sake you need to consider the possibility. - DvF

[expatinuk]

I think that you really also need to rethink your field... Political Science and/or History have soo many applicants that even people from the best programs have difficulty in finding a job.

Perhaps you might look into a Ph.D. in Education focusing on the teaching of History/Political Science.