But this is the same question: Why doesn't your field fill up?
Exactly.
Why doesn't it? Pay is high. Working conditions are good (how many accounting PhDs do you hear complaining of 4/4 loads?). Still, few are interested in this line of work.
Yet, many are willing to dedicate 5-7 years to earning a PhD in a field (History) in which a significant portion of graduates do not ever hold TT jobs and the pay isn't so hot even if they get one and many teach heavy loads.
It's a conundrum.
Contrast this with my field, where we are desperate for new PhDs. We've had loads of new programs started in the past decade but the number of total grads has dropped. The older larger programs have actually been conferring less degrees per year than formerly. I don't see how logic applies even in the old supply and demand arrangement.
Well, that's fascinating! I do not really recall anyone ever bringing up shortages, except in the sense of shortages being contrivances for recruitment. [Was this mentioned in this thread? They're all blending together...]
Can you say more without "outing" yourself?
You haven't read many of my posts on the job seeking threads if you've never heard mention of shortages -- particularly the threads about how oversupplied all of academia is and such like. ;o)
All of academic is not oversupplied (as some people love to assert on this forum). Some fields are undersupplied. Some fields are grossly undersupplied. Examples: Nursing, accounting, finance, a few other business fields, some specialties of engineering and science, probably...
I think part (and only part) of the explanation is that in my field (accounting) folks with a BS or an MS have huge lucrative professional opportunities. I presume (I could be wrong) that in history, for example, the BA or the MA aren't really tickets to a good job or a high paying or high responsibility position in a well-known (outside of academia) profession. So, accountants have lots of alternative choices (to getting a PhD) that lead to lucrative and fulfilling jobs. So, most of them have found something that fits them before they ever consider getting a PhD.
History or perhaps English can be contrasted with my field. The BA or MA grads don't have a particular profession with lucrative high responsibility and so forth jobs waiting on them. Many of these grads still have to decide what they want to do when they grow up (to use a common phrase). Accounting grads don't have to do this. Plus, the accounting grads have a wide range of options, they can take jobs in several very diverse areas of accounting (audit, tax, public, private, industry, government, etc.) or they can look for more interesting but a bit different employment in other fields of business because their skills are in demand as managers and analysts as well. Plus, they are in high demand by government agencies such as the FBI, CIA, DEA, etc. who need folks with financial knowledge to help catch the bad guys (who are often caught by following the money these days).
I imagine (I could be wrong) that many history PhDs saw getting the doctorate as the next logical step after the BA or MA. Few accountants feel that way about getting a doctorate, I'm sure (would be interesting to study and compare the two groups, though).
So, very different worlds, in many ways. So, these history graduates see (obviously I'm guessing and over generalizing here) getting a PhD as the next logical step, without regard, to some extent, of what employment might await them, since their view of employment and "profession" is very different than an accountant's view (which is probably more similar to a physician, lawyer, minister, or nurse's view - they chose a profession).
Still, some folks decide to get PhDs in accounting, anyhow. Most of them love what they do and get paid very well (relative to the history PhDs on average, for sure). I know some schools hired new PhDs this year in accounting at $160k + summer research money. This is not Harvard or Chicago or NYU or Stanford I'm thinking of. Think flagship Southern university. $160k goes a long way in just about any city you can think of that has a Southern flagship state U in it. Yet, the undersupply has reached shocking levels.
How many PhD programs exist in History in the USA?
How many history PhDs are conferred each year in the USA?
(obviously, I don't know)
In accounting, here are rough approximate numbers:
Programs active in the past decade: 100 roughly
Graduates last year: < 150 roughly
[we could contrast that with the relatively huge numbers of BS and MS graduates in Accounting, increasing every year, with something like 99.9% job placement]
An anecdote:
In a recent search for a professor in major subfield A, we (an RU/H) received about 30 applications. Roughly, 10 of them were folks who were not qualified at all (no doctorate). 10 of them were folks who clearly were using our school as a back-up (they wanted a higher ranked school and were unlikely to accept an offer if we made one. 10 of them were qualified and probably not shopping for a back up. One or two were shopping for a comparison offer to go back to the home school and get a raise. A few were in a totally different (and inappropriate for this position) subfield. A few were just not possibly a good fit. That left about 4 real possibilities. Four. Imagine a 20th century history position search that looks like this.
Another anecdote:
10 years ago, I started a new TT job (not my first, just a move up) and met a lady who was starting her first post PhD job (in History). She spoke or read/wrote 7 languages (several were dead languages, she was an ancient historian) and had several articles, a book contract, and a shiny new PhD. She had a one year VAP at our institution (very large RU/H in a Southern state). She wasn't shortlisted for the TT coming up the following year because they could hire an Oxbridge grad and she was just a grad of <large very well-known major US university>. She did get a TT job the following year, but had to move across the country to a very small school, living 100s (maybe 1000s) of miles from her SO and making about $39k. She considered herself very lucky.
So, back to the original questions:
Why do so many folks earn PhDs in History, a field in which their odds of a TT job are not high and pay is not high?
Why do so few folks earn PhDs in Accounting, a field in which they can (almost) have the job of their choice, are paid well, etc.?
Even the (real or imagined) differences in the (possible) norms of the fields do not explain the current oversupplied/undersupplied markets.
Well, that's a rambling mess, but it is way past my bedtime...
