next »

[inthelab]

Yes, but the problem is that in the US the vast, vast majority of clinical research is funded by the big pharmas. The only really large clinical studies of herbal alternatives were funded by the German government, and it's been out for at least a couple of decades. The German Commission E was available from Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/Herbal-Medicine-Expanded-Commission-Monographs/dp/0967077214 but is out of print now.

Not so, only the trials for ethical or OTC pharmaceuticals sponsored by companies in accordance with FDA regs.  You all can and should lobby Congress to change the laws so that pharma nolonger runs its own trials under the FDA auspices, rather the FDA runs the trials instead.  I think that's a better system but it won't happen untilit is the will of the people.
The trials for cancer chemotherapeutics commonly in use today were funded by the NIH.

[treehugger1]

So I will ask the questions a little differently:  has anyone had success with alternative therapies for any condition at all?   Did you self medicate or were you consulting a qualified (however that is defined) practitioner?   Do some conditions (chronic rather than acute) seem more to evoke consulting alternative practitioners? 

I tend to be very skeptical of alternative medicine ... even something as innocuous as meditation/mindfulness. (I just find it a boring waste of time. YMMV, of course.)

That said, I've had one very positive experience with the mind/body approach. I suffered from a chronic pain syndrome for about 7 years, until I learned how to think away the pain. This technique has nothing to do with meditation, lowering stress levels, changing one's life style etc. Instead, this is what you do:

1. Tell yourself: "I am fine. The pain is simply pain. It is not a signal of any physiological abnormality. I am fine."
2. Tell the pain: "Go away. Leave me alone. Go away now."
3. Stop obsessing about the pain. Ignore it or, at the very least, try to focus on something else.
4. Do whatever it is you have been afraid to do -- without fear and ignoring the pain as much as possible. In my case, this has meant typing/running when concerns about arm/hip pain might have prevented me from doing so. Each time, the pain has gradually lessened and gone away. (Of course, I had all kinds of medical tests to prove that there were no physical abnormalities.)

I know it sounds like a silly or even heartless technique. But it really worked for me and, if certain books/websites can be believed, other chronic pain sufferers as well.

[scheherazade]

There is an excellent book published by the American Pharmaceutical Association called Practical Guide to Natural Medicines.  It lists hundreds of herbs and natural remedies, describes them, explains what it is generally used for, describes the forms in which they are readily available, the common dosage, whether or not it works, whether or not it is dangerous, and all sources.  Each herb also is rated on a scale from 1-5 regarding effectiveness and potential for harm.  The book has an index in the back by symptom as well.  So, if you have a stomachache, you can look up "stomachache" in the index and find what herbs are used for that.

Each herb's information is pulled from, among other sources,  scientific studies.  Several of these studies come from Germany, as they are well ahead of most other countries in evaluating and regulating herbal medicines.

[inthelab]

There is an excellent book published by the American Pharmaceutical Association called Practical Guide to Natural Medicines.  It lists hundreds of herbs and natural remedies, describes them, explains what it is generally used for, describes the forms in which they are readily available, the common dosage, whether or not it works, whether or not it is dangerous, and all sources.  Each herb also is rated on a scale from 1-5 regarding effectiveness and potential for harm.  The book has an index in the back by symptom as well.  So, if you have a stomachache, you can look up "stomachache" in the index and find what herbs are used for that.

Each herb's information is pulled from, among other sources,  scientific studies.  Several of these studies come from Germany, as they are well ahead of most other countries in evaluating and regulating herbal medicines.

See my previous post on buying herbal remedies.  Their manufacture is unregulated in the US.  There is no requirement for labeling accuracy (including source country) whatsoever.

Good luck.

[scheherazade]

There is an excellent book published by the American Pharmaceutical Association called Practical Guide to Natural Medicines.  It lists hundreds of herbs and natural remedies, describes them, explains what it is generally used for, describes the forms in which they are readily available, the common dosage, whether or not it works, whether or not it is dangerous, and all sources.  Each herb also is rated on a scale from 1-5 regarding effectiveness and potential for harm.  The book has an index in the back by symptom as well.  So, if you have a stomachache, you can look up "stomachache" in the index and find what herbs are used for that.

Each herb's information is pulled from, among other sources,  scientific studies.  Several of these studies come from Germany, as they are well ahead of most other countries in evaluating and regulating herbal medicines.

See my previous post on buying herbal remedies.  Their manufacture is unregulated in the US.  There is no requirement for labeling accuracy (including source country) whatsoever.

Good luck.

Many people grow them themselves.  Additionally, if you have access to the right places, you can get them in leaf form.

My SO, who is an MD, agrees that the bottled stuff can be sketchy, but we've always gotten any herbal remedies we many want from our garden, spice cabinet, or a reputable dealer.  A lot of herbal remedies are easy-to-get spices and herbs.  Ginger, mint, blueberry, dill...this is not as complicated as you like to make it out to be.

[ideagirl]

Not all anecdotal evidence is created equal.

But that's a perfect example, ideagirl. This anecdote is very important to you because of your relationship with the storyteller. However, to me, it carries no weight, because you're just a pseudonym on a message board relating a story about a friend of a friend. A classic urban legend situation.

The problem you're pointing out is a problem with the delivery of the message--by the nature of the way you and I are communicating, this message cannot be sourced or verified in any way (unless I'm willing to give up my own anonymity, which I'm not). But I wasn't saying "because this happened to my mom's friend, you, O random pseudonymous stranger on the internet, should believe alterative medicine works"--I was saying that, as between two anecdotes that both ARE properly sourced, the story of "this herbal remedy made my wife's feet warm" is much less compelling than "this woman who is now a licensed nurse, when she was in nursing school, saw brain surgery performed using only acupuncture as anesthetic."

[madhatter]

I'm not sure how one "properly sources" an anecdote (or even what that is supposed to mean). Perhaps we're talking past each other, because I don't see the difference that seems to be so clear and persuasive to you.

[finallyfullprof]

I took a journey down this path several years ago. It was not pretty.  After a botched surgical procedure, I had serious issues with anxiety and depression.  Because of my family's history, I was reluctant to take traditional medicines (although I did and hated myself every moment).  I didn't feel as if I were getting over it quickly enough and I really wanted to get off the medicines, so I turned to alternative methods.

I tried acupuncture first because I had a friend who recommended it. It felt good while the treatment was going on but did nothing afterwards. The practitioner was always trying to sell me herbs of different types. I tried them, but again, I couldn't tell they did anything for me other than make me go to the bathroom more often.

After that I went to a chiropractor. He was helpful for the stress headaches I was experiencing, but he was obviously milking the system. He set up an initial treatment plan for me over three months.  But he kept adding to it. Before I knew it, I'd been going regularly for seven months with no end in sight.  When I asked about it, he said, "Don't worry. Your insurance is paying for it." That was my last visit.

Next I tried massage. Instead of going to a regular massage therapist, I found someone who did alternative modalities such as cranio-sacral and BodyTalk. She told me I was "too emotionally fragile" for a regular massage. Because she was a nice person and seemed to care about me, I trusted her far more than I should have.  She considered herself to be a health-care practitioner and was always giving me advice about supplements to take and new things to try. Going to her was probably the most expensive mistake I made because I usually took her referrals and ended up getting little or no benefit in return. I took a class in breathing techniques that was supposed to eliminate my need for asthma medication. She sent me to a naturopath who tried to diagnose me through iridology and claimed she could tell which supplements I needed by placing them in my hands and seeing how my body reacted.  She referred me to an MD who also practiced homeopathy. He sent me home with sugar pills of various types for almost a year, but I still did not improve.

You'd think someone with an advanced degree who's married to a scientist would not have been so stupid.  And, with the exception of the massage therapist and the homeopathic MD, I saw the fraud that was being perpetuated by these people once I met them and subjected myself to their care. (I held out the longest with the MD because I thought his having two specialties had some promise.)  To this day, I kick myself over the amount of time and money I spent on these charlatans. But the allure was powerful.  Traditional doctors just kept telling me I was crazy and take these pills.  The alternative practitioners at least acted as if they cared and would take time to listen to me. Appointments with them were never rushed, and they seemed to at least consider me as a whole person. I know now that's part of their shtick (though I do believe some of them do care and think what they are doing is helpful).

It took me almost two years to realize I was wasting my resources. I decided to switch doctors and find someone who would listen to me. It turned out that a simple blood test revealed the reason for my symptoms, but it was one that no one else thought to run because of my age.  With the addition of a new medicine, I was able to get off psych drugs altogether. I pay a substantial fee to my new doctor because he's concierge, but that money is well spent since I actually got better and have stayed better for the past two years. Having a doctor who schedules 30-60 minute appointments and takes the time to really understand his patients is what made the difference for me.

I still take a couple of dietary supplements recommended by my doctor, and I still get massages (but "real" ones now from a different practitioner). I read research on CAM now and am more picky about the sources I trust. All I can say is God bless my scientist spouse, who knew that most of this was hooey but didn't belittle me because at least it was giving me hope I could get better (something traditional medicine was not offering at the time). I think a lot of people who use CAM are like me: those who the allopathic system tends dismiss because their problems are not easily solved with a 10-15 minute visit. If doctors had the time and patience to really listen and not always be so quick to dismiss everything they don't have an easy answer for, CAM would not be nearly as popular as it is. 

[mountain_ivy]

CAM?? 

[madhatter]

"Complementary and Alternative Medicine." A buzzphrase that was adopted in the '90s to suggest that alternative medicines should be integrated into the health care system (i.e., complementary as opposed to a replacement).

[avatara]

I'm both a skeptic and a believer in alt med therapies. I posted in another thread that when I was diagnosed with borderline high cholesterol several years ago, my doctor wanted me to begin taking a statin right away. After conducting research on treatment options used outside the U.S., I started taking no-flush niacin, CoQ-10, and deodorized garlic pills. It took about a year to achieve overall cholesterol in the "good" range, lower LDL and triglycerides, and raise HDL. (There are FDA-approved niacin drugs like Niaspan for cholesterol; I just prefer not to take them.) Should my regimen ever fail to control my cholesterol, I will try red yeast rice. I consider statins drugs of last resort.

I also use dried blueberries, slippery elm bark, activated charcoal, fennel, and ginger for digestive issues, zinc and vitamin C for colds, calendula for skin problems, etc. I generally steer clear of homeopathic medicines, but am convinced that Quietude by Boiron actually works for restlessness/sleeplessness.

[psychdiva]

My mom is a former heavy smoker and recently developed what her pulmonologist described as "pre-emphysema." He prescribed Western meds for this but also referred her to a yoga teacher who emphasizes correct breathing and strengthening of the muscles involved in respiration. My mom feels much, much better, though of course it's impossible to suss out which intervention is responsible for that, and this is a single anecdote. I was impressed and appreciative that her doc was thinking in an integrative manner.

In my psychotherapy practice, I sometimes see patients who've struggled for a long time with illnesses that Western medicine considers to be ill-defined, vague or difficult to treat. Some of these patients (often women), in their desperate search for relief, have been victimized by scam CAM "practitioners" - drained financially and exploited emotionally. It would be great if the general public had better access to the data that do exist on the efficacy of various CAM treatments, though I know that research in this area is relatively new and there will always be people who are vulnerable to being scammed.

OTOH, there are some simple, empirically-tested non-medical interventions that can be very helpful for anxiety and depression, yet Western docs almost never mention these to patients when prescribing psychotropic medication. As far as I'm concerned, that's a form of negligence.

[psychdiva]

two decades of systematic data collection with literally millions of reports from Europe showed no statistically significant interactions with other medications for St. John's Wort, yet the US medical commentaries are filled with anecdotal reports of adverse reactions, including interactions with MAOIs and anti-rejection drugs after transplants.

Every drug/herb interaction reference table that I consult indicates that St. John's Wort reduces the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.

[finallyfullprof]

OTOH, there are some simple, empirically-tested non-medical interventions that can be very helpful for anxiety and depression, yet Western docs almost never mention these to patients when prescribing psychotropic medication. As far as I'm concerned, that's a form of negligence.

I was lucky that I did get some of that advice at the time.  My psychiatrist insisted that I get regular psychotherapy, and I learned breathing, visualizing, self-hypnosis, and meditation techniques from the counselor I saw (an LMFT).  In my case, the point was that I had a medical reason for my symptoms that was fixable.  All it took was a doctor who asked the right question and performed the right test. That sounds so easy as I type it, yet the amount of time and money it took to get there was incredible. If I'd had a good doctor from the beginning, I think I probably would have gone through counseling and meds for a short period to deal with the trauma of the surgery while also being on the medicine that ended up correcting the accompanying medical problem. I could have been spared the CAM route altogether.