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[sikora]

I have started a form therapy called dialectical behavioral therapy.  DBT has been used primarily to treat borderline personality disorder, but it is being used more and more for chronic/long term PTSD and mood disorders.  It is pretty extensive, with weekly individual therapy and a weekly 2 hour skills training group.  Clients have to sign a contract with their individual therapist. The group has HOMEWORK!! which forces one to do things one would rather avoid (Like asking for help). The process is very hard and I'm finding it kind of scary.  It's not just getting validation from a counselor and pills from the psychiatrist (although I am going to ask about modifying my medications to help with some of my mood problems. I hope that's not considered cheating).  The extensiveness of DBT is why I decided not to try to find a full time job.

At any rate, one of the core tenents of DBT is mindfulness, in the Zen sense.  I am finding this extremely difficult; I think far too much. I've been working on being mindful as I play my banjo, and I've managed to get a number 30 second periods of mindfulness in the course of an hour's practice.  I can get some good mindfulness by listening intently to music.  Really got into some music from Bali.  Heard things I had never heard before.  But then my little puppy mind just runs off somewhere.

Any suggestions about mindfulness, practices, ideas and so forth? Any experiences with "core mindfulness?" With Zen?

[spork]

Chew each mouthful of food 20 times before swallowing.

[sikora]

Chew each mouthful of food 20 times before swallowing.

Do I have pay attention, or can I just hurry through it? :)

[helpful]

Read Jon Kabat-Zinn.

[mountain_ivy]

I'm useless on mindfulness, so please keep us in the loop on tips, techniques, etc.

May I start with 10 chews  ~:)

[spork]

Chew each mouthful of food 20 times before swallowing.

Do I have pay attention, or can I just hurry through it? :)

Count in your head to 20, swallow, repeat.

[infopri]

I'm not familiar with DBT or "core mindfulness," but from your post, I wonder whether my long-ago experience with transcendental meditation might help?  For TM, one is supposed to sit for 20 minutes and empty the mind of all thoughts except to focus on the mantra.  But, of course, everyone's mind wanders a few times during that 20-minute period.  When I asked my instructor how to avoid that, he acknowledged that it's very difficult and that I shouldn't worry about it if my mind kept wanting to wander off.  The trick, he said, was to rein it back in when I see it wandering.  He told me to cultivate a habit of noticing the wandering thoughts, saying to myself, "Oh, that's interesting--but I'm not going to think about that anymore right now," and then actively focusing on the mantra again.  Rinse and repeat as necessary.

In retrospect, this advice reminds me a little of what we tell people when they fall off any wagon (smoking, eating, not exercising, etc.): Don't beat yourself up for the lapse, but get right back up onto that wagon.  Perhaps it's no different when it comes to mental discipline.

Good luck!

[polly_mer]

At any rate, one of the core tenents of DBT is mindfulness, in the Zen sense.  I am finding this extremely difficult; I think far too much. I've been working on being mindful as I play my banjo, and I've managed to get a number 30 second periods of mindfulness in the course of an hour's practice.  I can get some good mindfulness by listening intently to music.  Really got into some music from Bali.  Heard things I had never heard before.  But then my little puppy mind just runs off somewhere.

Any suggestions about mindfulness, practices, ideas and so forth?

Your mind will do what it is accustomed to doing.  However, you can train your mind in new patterns.  One thing I've found that helps with a "little puppy mind" is to notice when it runs off and say "Yes, that's interesting.  Now back to the task at hand." and refocus.  With a lot of practice, I now only have a wandering mind about half as frequently as I used to have.

[on preview, or exactly what Infopri said]

[svenc]

I have started a form therapy called dialectical behavioral therapy.  DBT has been used primarily to treat borderline personality disorder, but it is being used more and more for chronic/long term PTSD and mood disorders.  It is pretty extensive, with weekly individual therapy and a weekly 2 hour skills training group.  Clients have to sign a contract with their individual therapist. The group has HOMEWORK!! which forces one to do things one would rather avoid (Like asking for help). The process is very hard and I'm finding it kind of scary.  It's not just getting validation from a counselor and pills from the psychiatrist (although I am going to ask about modifying my medications to help with some of my mood problems. I hope that's not considered cheating).  The extensiveness of DBT is why I decided not to try to find a full time job.

Hi Sikora,

I don't have any tips on mindfulness for you, just some encouragement regarding the difficulty of the treatment.  It's an old truism that anything worth doing will indeed be difficult, but the very fact that you are finding it difficult points to the key usefulness of these behavioral approaches for many people.  My layperson's understanding of such approaches is that while they don't generally "cure" anything, they can help you learn to deal with challenges and problem areas far more easily.  Of course, I suspect you know all that, which is why you've decided to go this route.

I can only speak of my experience with a close family member with a different situation than yours, so I won't pretend to know how helpful this will be for you.  I just wanted to note that the fact you're finding it difficult so far may indeed be the most promising thing.  Good luck -- and I hope that other posters here can provide you with more useful input on your question.

- svenc

[daurousseau]

Just think, back in the day you had to sit there and tell your therapist your dreams. Now you can sit there and tell what we said on the thread.

[zarathustra]

I'm not entirely sure what exactly "core mindfulness" is either, but as a musician, I would think that practicing an instrument would be helpful in any kind of exercise involving focus. 

My mind tends to run off when I'm practicing too and I think everyone's does, until they learn how to focus.  As you practice, you might keep a notebook and make note of when and where your mind runs off to.  You can look at those notes later and you might find you're able to compartmentalize stuff eventually.   (On preview, like what Polly Mer is suggesting).

For instance, I used to get distracted by stuff that had happened during the day and start "reliving" arguments or something when I was practicing, and I'd get upset and not be able to practice.  Eventually I learned to let go of stuff so I could focus elsewhere. 

Did your therapist give you any time goals on mindfulness?  For instance, I know that doing about 20 minutes of really intent, focuses practicing at a time is a pretty good stretch, and then I need a break, even if it's momentary.

Practicing can be scary, because you have to be critical of yourself and confront strengths and weaknesses.  But if you make it very objective, you can break larger problems down into smaller ones. 

Not sure where I'm going with this...just trying to relate it to something you've been doing already, maybe.

[sikora]

Thanks.

Today I set myself to 10 minutes of what I call "deep listening" to music.  I purposefully chose a cd of music for Bali.  Of course, my mind was all over the place, but as I did listen deep, I heard somethings about harmony and structure I'd never notices.  And background, as this music was recorded during real performances.

After I thought the ten minutes were up, I was surprised to find 18 minutes had gone by.

[polly_mer]

After I thought the ten minutes were up, I was surprised to find 18 minutes had gone by.

There ya go.  Being in the moment and unaware of the passage of time is a great start.

[psychdiva]

Sikora, I don't use DBT in my practice but I'm familiar with it and have colleague-friends who use it. One recommends the use of Tibetan Singing Bowl recordings (she says you can find them on iTunes). I just checked out a few of these and thought that the intermittent sonorous sound might be very helpful in gently cueing you to "mind the mind." Also, I'll echo an earlier poster that if this all seems like very hard work, that's a good sign that you're developing new skills.

[msparticularity]

Along the lines of the "Chop Wood, Carry Water" school, I find cooking/baking and gardening useful as a mindfulness practices. Baking bread is particularly good, since I get not only mindfulness but therapy out of it ;)