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[joey_fan]

From Inside Higher-Ed:

http://insidehighered.com/news/2008/08/04/legacy

Discuss.

[larryc]

Life is Unfair, Part 968 of a Continuing Series

[didotwite]

We get some sincere pressure to admit more wealthy students who don't meet our minimum admissions requirements.  Fortunately, the administration rarely caves. Legacies are not the only exceptions, though.  I just feel lucky that I didn't know anything about this stuff when I applied to college.  My ignorance back then kept me from what I'm sure would have been a raging resentment.

[larryc]

I finished out my undergrad at the University of Chicago, on a full scholarship. Where did the U of C get the dough to waive all the tuition for a weird kid from Connecticut from a lower middle class family? Some of it came from legacy kids who were loaded and paid the full sticker price.

[takapa]

I didn't see anything earth shattering about this piece, nor from the comments on the page provided (which were decidedly more argumentative than those appearing here in the CHE).  Many factors go into admissions.  So, Duke admits some legacies who have lower SAT scores and who (apparently) enjoy their freshman year to the detriment to their grades.  I wonder how they look in other ways?  I wonder if they graduate at decent rates (by institutional standard)?  I once sat on the grad admissions committee for my department.  We considered legacy status.  We didn't think legacy would equal cash which would then equal future donations.  We considered legacies as people who likely knew about our graduate program, had a historical context of what would be needed, and a large number of related legacy issues.  Admissions are a multifaceted thing.  And it is rarely "just based on the numbers" for any applicant.

[inthelab]

My younger daughter will start later this month at my alma mater (husband received his PhD from that school, which is where we met).  I dispute the notion about being "lower" academically, although daughter certainly did not receive anything like the financial aid I did when I went there.

[turnip123]

Another reason to be happy I went to a "regional MA" state school with a scholarship for my in-state tuition.  No one pissed & moaned about these problems there, and I think we were all the better for it.

[comp_queen]

My younger daughter will start later this month at my alma mater (husband received his PhD from that school, which is where we met).  I dispute the notion about being "lower" academically, although daughter certainly did not receive anything like the financial aid I did when I went there.

Inthelab makes a good point.  There are plenty of legacies who are the children of top-notch-student parents who valued education and modelled that in the home, and then their children, even though they are legacies, are probably among the most highly qualified applicants and are assets to the college, just like their parents were, and just like your daughter will certainly be.

But inthelab, think of a lot of the rest of your undergrad classmates.  They may have partied and scraped by academically, but they are graduates, and their kids, who may take more after them than after you and your husband in academic values.  They get to write down "Mom, class of 1975 [or whenever]" just the same as your daughter did.

And then they get there, and because legacy status really was the tipping point of their getting in, they struggle.  It's tough for them because every time they struggle they think, "I shouldn't be at this school; I only got in because I'm a legacy." One of my friends in college went through just this situation. 

Alternatively, there are the less-sincere-student legacies, and the serious students (like me) look at them and think, "Great.  Because of who their parents are, they never had to worry to get into this school, while I was working hard in high school.  And they don't work hard now either, while I do, but just like me they get to go through life as graduates of Our College."

What larryc said about Part 968 of a continuing series, and in this instance I really don't think there is a good solution.

[inthelab]

My younger daughter will start later this month at my alma mater (husband received his PhD from that school, which is where we met).  I dispute the notion about being "lower" academically, although daughter certainly did not receive anything like the financial aid I did when I went there.

Inthelab makes a good point.  There are plenty of legacies who are the children of top-notch-student parents who valued education and modelled that in the home, and then their children, even though they are legacies, are probably among the most highly qualified applicants and are assets to the college, just like their parents were, and just like your daughter will certainly be.

But inthelab, think of a lot of the rest of your undergrad classmates.  They may have partied and scraped by academically, but they are graduates, and their kids, who may take more after them than after you and your husband in academic values.  They get to write down "Mom, class of 1975 [or whenever]" just the same as your daughter did.

And then they get there, and because legacy status really was the tipping point of their getting in, they struggle.  It's tough for them because every time they struggle they think, "I shouldn't be at this school; I only got in because I'm a legacy." One of my friends in college went through just this situation. 

Alternatively, there are the less-sincere-student legacies, and the serious students (like me) look at them and think, "Great.  Because of who their parents are, they never had to worry to get into this school, while I was working hard in high school.  And they don't work hard now either, while I do, but just like me they get to go through life as graduates of Our College."

What larryc said about Part 968 of a continuing series, and in this instance I really don't think there is a good solution.

I went to Johns Hopkins, sort of ranks with U Chicago in the non-party atmosphere.  I don't know anyone who scraped by.  School was tough.  Also, being a legacy counts only a little in admissions ratings at most "elite" schools.  If the writers had looked at Harvard instead of Duke, they would have come to a different conclusion.  I recall seeing a study on Harvard legacies around the time my daughter applied. 

To turnip1234: our state school doesn't allow you to combine studying music with a liberal arts ed.  Either you are in the liberal arts college, the ag school, the engineering school, or the music school.  My daughter wants to minor in music and major in something else.

[kedves]

Re:  Questions of academic quality:  This study is of one university only, Duke, and found that legacy undergrad admits had lower SAT scores on average than students from comparably educated family backgrounds.  They performed less-than-average in their first year but after the first year, were similar in terms of grades and graduation.  They are not partying or slacking any more than other students, it seems.   

Private universities differ in their policies toward legacy students, and those policies change over time.  Many universities using legacy points toward admission are trying to build traditions.  They have identified this goal as important to the culture of the institution.

One elite university I'm familiar with changed from a legacy focus to an international-student focus because its goal is to become an international, not American, university.  An unstated reason for the change is that international students pay the full tuition bill--no financial aid--leaving more scholarship money for other students, thus allowing the university to maintain its diversity goals for U.S. admits.  In the short term of 20-40 years, this university has alienated many of its alumni who counted on their children's attending their alma mater.  This shift was made primarily for prestige and positioning reasons rather than fund-raising strategies.  Ironically, the policy that made so many alumni unhappy benefited some of their children who would have gone to Ivy U to please Dad and Mom, but who were relieved and happy to attend City U instead.  At the same time, we admitted a few children of non-alumni major gifts donors or propects, all of whom graduated with no special help.  It's harder to get accepted to some--not all--elite institutions than it is to graduate from them.  It's also worth remembering that some top institutions are so selective that students who are not up to their usual standards are often very smart.

Legacy admissions points are just one of the many special categories that universities use to advance their institutional goals.  I don't have strong feelings about whether this is more or less objectionable than other categories.

[goldenapple]

It is complicated. From an admissions standpoint, legacy students have specific advantages. If the family tradition is strong, they have a greater attachment to this university in particular. That means that if you accept them, they are more likely to come (for selective universities, calculating the percentage of accepted students who will actually come is critical).

And once at the university, they have a strong motivation to stay there. Their family is attached to the idea of graduating from this place, not just going to college. Also, they've heard about the university, and may even have visited it regularly (for reunions, homecoming weekends, sporting events), so they shouldn't encounter as many surprises as other students once they arrive. I'd like to see numbers on the attrition of legacy students, because my guess would be that those numbers are lower than average.

Finally, they are prepared to be active alumni. Their parents are probably members of the alumni association and they too may join it. They may be drawn to the university's tradition and want to maintain its future.

None of this has anything to do with the value of legacy students in the classroom, though.

[inthelab]

None of this has anything to do with the value of legacy students in the classroom, though.

Or lack thereof.

[goldenapple]

None of this has anything to do with the value of legacy students in the classroom, though.

Or lack thereof.

Right, I'm not saying anything about their effect on the university as a place to learn. I just wanted to point out some ways that they fit into the institutional structure.

[turnip123]

To turnip1234: our state school doesn't allow you to combine studying music with a liberal arts ed.  Either you are in the liberal arts college, the ag school, the engineering school, or the music school.  My daughter wants to minor in music and major in something else.

Yeah, that is a problem with big state schools.  Fortunately, mine didn't have those kinds of nutty rules. 

It also did not have an insanely opaque set of admissions processes that generated all kinds of anxiety for applicants and their parents, and for the students once they got there. 

[kiana]

Curious: does it at least let you register for a music class as a general elective, or is it completely locked out?

I went someplace that subdivided like that for a while, but they said it was pretty common for a student to complete the requirements for a minor outside of the college and just note that in their cover letter.