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[doodlebug]

In the thread on the spouse who came into a lot of money and no longer needed to work, Englitprof said:

Contribution to the family income isn't the issue; it's being with someone who is ethical, social, and psychological deadweight.

I am dealing with this problem right now (although contributing to the family income is somewhat of an issue) and it's driving me crazy.  I'm going to vent a little here, but I also need advice on how to deal with it.

Past Scenario:  Husband supports me for 1.5 years while I research and write my diss, right at the beginning of our relationship.  He pays for everything shared - rent, food, utilities.  He doesn't hold this fact over my head at the time - in fact he says it makes him feel good to be the sole provider - but he does pester me constantly about finishing my diss.  He never understands the "abnormal" way of work necessary to research and write.  I stay at home, and am not responsible for any housework outside the chores we divvied up at the outset. 

When I'm on the job market, he tells me not to take just any job, but the one I'll be happiest with.  I show him the list of hiring institutions and he nixes some because he doesn't want to live in certain environments (very large city, the southwest, etc).  This is fine with me.  Lo and behold, I get a job offer in a great department and good geographical location.  We discuss it and he says go for it.  I moved a couple month ahead of him as he needed to finish up his work contract.  He joins me and does not work for three months because he is being sent on another work contract somewhere else.  He takes on the role of "house husband" to some extent - cleans periodically, fixes food, does the shopping.  Then he goes on his assignment for 4 months.  Comes back, leaves for the past work assignment to finish up some things there, but it's mostly vacation for another 2 weeks.  He returns, we go on two trips with only a week at home in-between.  Now we're up to the present.

Present situation:  He refuses to get a job.  He simply flat out refuses.  He has a small amount of money saved from his work contracts and thinks that he wants to live off that until it runs out, then he'll get a job.  He's also considering going on unemployment again - he did for a few weeks when he moved to join me.  I don't think this is ethical, but whatever.  The most annoying thing is he has not done anything constructive since he's moved here.  Nada.  His idea of a full day is to get up at 10, watch tv all day, then play video games or watch tv while getting drunk at night.  He's put on a bunch of weight and has no interest in sex.  I wind up cleaning when I can't take it any more (which fortunately takes a long time, I'm not a neat freak).  He has no friends and he hardly ever leaves the house.  I'd say he was depressed, but when I ask him he says he feels great! 

He's always told me he's never aspired to much, but this is ridiculous.  I am so sick of him and his attitude.  Yesterday I asked him if he had contacted a prospective job contact here and he flew off the handle - had a tantrum!  I've been giving him the cold shoulder because he hasn't tried at all to apologize for his behavior; in fact he's been avoiding me.  I called him last night when he wasn't home at dinnertime, but I just got voice mail and I left a brief message saying I was wondering where he was.  No call back.  I left for a while and when I got home, he was in his den with the door shut.  He slept on the couch last night. 

I feel like I'm living with a teenager!!  I don't know what to do.  I went to indiviual counseling last fall because of the lack of physical affection from him, but he refused either individual or marriage counseling.  We've only been married 2.5 years, and we're in our late 30s, early 40s, so it's not like we're too "old" or stuck in our ways.  I am losing all respect for him.  I'm sure he feels somewhat resentful of having moved to follow me, because he keeps saying "I left a good job for you, you better not screw this up".  (Well, it turns out that his job - the whole dept in fact - was later elimnated, so he wouldn't have had a job anyway.)  I'm fine with being the main breadwinner, but I don't want to support a slob with no aspirations.  We've brainstormed options for him, such as going back to school, working part-time, or working full-time; I'd support any of them. 

Help - how do I kick his ass in gear??  Should I? 

(I guess I vented more than a little.  Sorry it's so long.)

[ideagirl]

Therapy. At least go for yourself, and if the problems continue, this is the kind of thing that may be worth giving an ultimatum for--"either you come into therapy with me, or I'm leaving, because I can't live like this anymore."

[englitprof]

I think you're right that he's depressed, no matter what he says.  However, you can't force him to do anything about it.

I agree with ideagirl--get a counselor yourself at least, and take it from there.

[yellowtractor]

The reason for getting a therapist, by the way, has less to do with changing him or changing you in the short term than it does with managing the situation.  If you don't, you are apt to do one (or more) of three things:

• periodically blow up at spouse, which has not worked very well so far and, from appearances, is not likely to work any better in the forseeable future;
• dump on friends and colleagues in lieu of spouse, which will eventually destroy those relationships; or
• bottle your feelings up inside, becoming an incredibly unhappy person and damaging your performance and your viability at the very job that brought you to this place, which presumably you are (otherwise) enjoying.

Hopefully talking to a therapist can help you avoid all three of these scenarios until such time as your spouse is more reasonable.  Good luck.

[doodlebug]

Thanks, Englitprof, Ideagirl and Yellowtractor.  I agree that keeping up with therapy would probably be good.  The reasons you list, Yellowtractor, are precisely those that would prompt me to go.

My first instinct is to kick him to the curb NOW, but I'm fighting that because I do like him.  I just don't like how he's behaving right now.  And behavior can change, can't it?  :-)  

I honestly question whether he's depressed or not, because he does seem in a very good mood most of the time.  From his perspective, he's living high on the hog - he doesn't have to work, can putz around all day and do whatever he wants.  He doesn't sulk around, he can concentrate really well on his video game or book or whatever, and seems generally cheery.  He just isn't doing anything constructive or supportive for us as a familial unit.  He's enjoying his time off like he's on semi-permanent vacation.

He says that he's doing what I got to do for 1.5 years and now it's his turn.  I reply that during those 1.5 years I WAS working - just on a project that he couldn't see any progress on and that was not paying me to do it.  

It seems to me that he's taking advantage of the situation and of me.  Perhaps that's how he felt while he was supporting me, but to me the situation is different.  He is simply choosing to be lazy.

I don't know if this contributes to better understanding the current situation or not, but around Christmas time I threatened to leave him because I found out he was planning a secret rendezvous with an old flame with whom he's cheated on previous girlfriends.  I confronted him and said he can have her and I'm leaving him, but he begged and promised to never contact her again, which as far as I know he's held to.  So, supposedly he values our relationship.  :-)

[yellowtractor]

He says that he's doing what I got to do for 1.5 years and now it's his turn.  I reply that during those 1.5 years I WAS working - just on a project that he couldn't see any progress on and that was not paying me to do it.  

Aha--I thought this was somewhere in the mix.  You know, we used to have a long thread about trying to explain graduate school, the job market, and the tenure track to non-academic spouses, parents, relatives, and friends ("I don't understand.  Why don't you just get a job at that nice Ivy League school down the street?"  "Haven't you finished that paper yet?" etc.).  This sort of exchange is maddening to any of us (all of us) who worked hard to receive and apply the academic credentials we now have.  I don't think I've ever quite convinced my extended family that what I do is "real work," but after 15+ years I have trained them not to make comments of this sort.

It's discouraging, but beyond reiterating, calmly, that you were working all that time, there's not much you can do about it.  If you like him, do what you can to muddle through this period in his life and hope he will change.  After all, he was a working man before.  At some point he may be ready for the therapy or counseling he refuses now.

[ideagirl]

I don't know if this contributes to better understanding the current situation or not, but around Christmas time I threatened to leave him because I found out he was planning a secret rendezvous with an old flame with whom he's cheated on previous girlfriends.  I confronted him and said he can have her and I'm leaving him, but he begged and promised to never contact her again, which as far as I know he's held to.  So, supposedly he values our relationship.  :-)

Holy s***. Scuse my French. He was planning a date with a woman that he has not only slept with, but has cheated on previous girlfriends with?!
Keep your antennae up, man.

[undisciplined]

OP, go back and read the thread on drcoffee's situation last spring. Not an identical situation but you will see some similarities there. Be careful and good luck.

[antiphon1]

Get thee to a therapist.  And keep your finances separate.

I smell a rat here.

[kilpikonna]

OP, I'm confused about the timing.  For the first months you were together in New Location, he didn't seek a job because he had a contract coming up, and he helped out around the house.  Then he was off working for four months.  Then there were a few weeks of intermittent travel for work and pleasure, and you've just gotten back from that.  Right?  So ... how long has he been deadweight?  Two weeks?  Or do we count the period when he was between jobs and doing housework?  Because housework, clearly, doesn't count as a meaningful contribution to the family.

I don't think it's good for anybody, male or female, to be unemployed for an extended period of time.  I want to say that up front.  I think in this work-centric culture it does weird things to people's identities (and I suspected it played a role in the dr_coffee brouhaha too, though there was a ton going on there).  I also think that someone who's at home ought to do their part to keep things tidy at home, and it sounds like he's been seriously slacking on that lately.  So in the main I don't disagree that your husband ought to be gearing up to do something different; and I agree that his unwillingness to discuss it is a red flag.  But...

...but if I have the timeline right, you (and the other posters) are way more judgmental of him than I would be in this situation.  My gut reaction is that gender norms have something to do with this: a man who doesn't have steady employment is not worth much as a man.  If he is getting that vibe from you, I am not surprised that he is acting out in adolescent boy type ways.

That's not to say you're wrong for wanting him to seek employment: like I said I think you're right.  But thinking of him disparagingly as deadweight for being between things for a few weeks after he supported you for two years and followed you to your new job at some cost to him -- that's harsh, and says pretty nasty things about the dynamic between the two of you.

If I have the timeline wrong and he's been at this "sleep late get drunk" business for months, that's another story entirely!

[doodlebug]

Kilpikonna - I wrote a whole lot, so I can see how it would be confusing.  And I agree, that if he were being a deadbeat just this last week, that would not be a problem.  We all deserve some time off.  The thing is, he's been the lay-about ever since he moved down here.  It's intensified in the last two months when we've been home, but before that, he still only did the minimum about of housework and spent most of his day in tv and beer land.  I don't mean to imply that housework is not a meaningful contribution - it IS, when it's actually done and on a regular basis.  He enjoys cooking and does a good job of it, so I very willingly clean up the dishes.  I also take turns doing the laundry, clean up after the pets, dust and run the vacuum when I have time and I can no longer stand the carpet, and have been even while he was between jobs the first time. 

I find your comment interesting, Kilpikonna, about gender roles because I've been asking this question of myself.  I feel that anyone who just lays around and does nothing out of choice to be underserving of respect, be it male or female.  Like I've said, I wouldn't mind supporting us if he were at least doing something constructive with his time.  If he wanted to become an artist, a gourmet cook, earn his master's in basketweaving or build a spaceship to the moon, I don't care - at least he's doing something.  And it doesn't matter if it's something constructive to our life as a family or to the greater good of society, as long as it's constructive in his life.  I don't want him to just float along forever, dissolving into nothingness.  Meanwhile, he's perfectly happy being alone all day and not responsible for anything.

He's told me before he has self-esteem issues, and I've tried to say positive things and encourage him to explore his options, be it find a job or go to school or anything he wants to do, but I'm running out of steam and patience.  In a way, frankly, I'm a teensy bit jealous because I think this is such an awesome opportunity for him to reassess his life and decide if he wants to do something different with it.  How many of us get the chance to redirect our lives with a safety net?  So in part I feel like he's abusing this opportunity.  This tantrum yesteday was the last straw for me for a while.  I'm not going to say anything about anything for a few weeks (helpfully I'm going to be gone for 10 days), and then we'll see.  I've told him before that come September he has to start at least looking for a job.  So we'll be there soon and then we'll see what happens. 

Thanks everyone for you comments.  I really appreciate them.  I'm going to try to find the thread on dr_coffee.

[prytania3]

Your husband sounds like my 18-year old son. I clearly have no answers but offer my sympathy.

[doodlebug]

Your husband sounds like my 18-year old son. I clearly have no answers but offer my sympathy.

Ha ha - thanks, Prytania3. 

I browsed through some of Dr_Coffee's history about her husband as somebody suggested.  There do seem to be a lot of similarities, except I'm pretty sure my husband is not bipolar - he's never been manic about anything for as long as I've known him.  Still, it was an interesting story. 

[hrvatski18]

Your husband sounds 18 or 65, I can't tell which.

At any rate, I think he *is* depressed regardless of what he says.  One doesn't have to sulk or appear depressed to *actually* be depressed.   He's put on a lot of weight?  No interest in sex or other activities?  His sleeping schedule has changed?   Sounds like depression to me, and he's in denial about it.

[prytania3]

Your husband sounds like my 18-year old son. I clearly have no answers but offer my sympathy.

Ha ha - thanks, Prytania3. 

I browsed through some of Dr_Coffee's history about her husband as somebody suggested.  There do seem to be a lot of similarities, except I'm pretty sure my husband is not bipolar - he's never been manic about anything for as long as I've known him.  Still, it was an interesting story. 

One thing about manic episodes that people don't understand is that they often manifest themselves as periods that look a lot like depression. The brain is going so fast that the body can't keep up, and it ends up that the person can't move in any productive way (i.e. ends up under the covers or watching endless TV). These are mixed episodes and one reason that bipolar is so hard to diagnose.

This isn't to say your husband has BP--I'm just saying this is sometimes a feature of BP.

It would probably be a good idea for him to see a psychiatrist, though.