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[philabd]

I am a Canadian finishing my Ph.D. in the US and about to go on the job market. There is a job in South Africa for which I would like to apply; the deadline is in early August. The ad asks only for a cv, a writing sample, a letter of motivation, and contact information for three referees. I can provide all of this, but I am wondering about when the referees would likely be contacted and whether they would be asked for letters if they are contacted. (Most application deadlines for positions in my field in Canada and the US are not until October at the earliest, and so my referees are not anticipating having to write letters until maybe September or so; I am worried about having to ask them to write letters on much shorter notice.) Any information about what is expected of referees in a typical hiring process in South Africa would be appreciated!

I would also be glad to have additional general information about the nature of the hiring process in South Africa. For example, a comparison of that process to the UK process would be very helpful.

[mingus]

Why are you worried?  If you apply for the job, then you *will* have to ask the referees, and I don't see how worrying about it is relevant in any way.  Apply or don't apply. 

The expectations for referees would be similar to those elsewhere.  In the UK the time-frame is usually quite short, as referees may not be contacted until you have been offfered a job.  Then, they have to respond in short order, if the offer is to be confirmed.

My advice: apply and ask for the references.  You have nothing to lose.

[philabd]

Thanks for the reply.

I was not worried about asking for the letters; I was worried only about asking for them without providing sufficient notice. But if the letters will not be required immediately, then this is not a real concern.

There was some recent discussion in this forum about the nature of life as an academic in South Africa. Some of the posts in the thread (and similar posts I have read elsewhere) make it sound quite undesirable. Further comments from anyone with relevant experience would be appreciated! (I could not find much using the search function.)

[helpful]

Working and living at a university in S. Africa is different depending on where in the country it is.

Imagine asking someone what it is like working in the U.S.A. without specifying the region or type of institution!

[moonmoon]

Well said.

[porcupine]

Totally agree with helpful's comment. Depending on where you are in SA, your experience of academic life is likely to be different (institution-dependent as well as location-dependent), as well as your experience of life outside of the academy.

philabd, can you tell us where the job is, so we can give more accurate information? Can you also explain exactly what you found undesirable about life as an SA academic, for the same reason?

[philabd]

Thanks to all for the replies -- I see that I really should have put my question in a more informative way.

The job is in Cape Town. The question is really about the nature of everyday life for an academic there. Reading around on-line, I came across many descriptions of the precautions that it is necessary to take in order to minimize threats to one's personal security. My concern has to do with the impact of these precautions (rather than with the threats directly): the descriptions paint a picture of a life spent behind gates, bars, etc., and this suggests a rather isolated, atomized sort of life. I am hoping for comments that speak to the accuracy of this picture.

[ploughandstars]

UCT or UWC (University of the Western Cape), I am assuming not Stellenbosh? All three are quite different.

Capetonians are a social lot even between institutions and are not walled up, isolated behind barbed electrified wires, sensors, guard dogs etc as much as the residents of Gautang. Of course you take precautions (in depth) but Cape Town is still one of the great cities of the world. I know academics at all three institutions (and others) -- Cape Town is the best place in South Africa to live and to work.

I'm there every December and January so if you have specific questions, write.
 

[offthemarket]

For what it's worth -

I've heard from a number of people (who I regard as social progressives) that South Africa is working to work hard to make sure there's social equity in filling jobs spots - with the goal of making public agencies have roughly the same ethnic makeup as the community.  So, for some jobs at least, it's very difficult for a foreigner to get them, as much as it is for a white South African.  If it's a public university, then this could be a challenge.  This is, of course, hearsay.

Hopefully someone with more direct knowledge can contribute more substantially.

[philabd]

Thanks for these replies.

ploughandstars: The job is at UTC. I have already applied for the position. On the off chance that the department should turn out to be interested in my application, I would have some more specific questions. But I would not like to get ahead of myself, so I think that I will not ask any such questions now.

[kmr1971]

Interesting thread.  Last year, I applied for a SA position.  In the advertisement itself, it specified that it took 8 weeks for them to respond (one way or the other) and in that time, I believe they did contact reference.  In any case, they used all 8 weeks but did contact/shortlist me and eventually I was offered the position (I declined it, but had a very positive interview).

Do note that while SA is a great place, salaries are quite a bit lower.  They made all sorts of accommodations for me in terms of level offered (top-of-the scale assoc. professor and I'm just 3 yrs. post-ph.d.), but even at that level, the pay take-home would have been about a 50% pay cut.  Plus, while costs are in general lower (maybe 15% in USD terms), they aren't that much lower than the USA, and some things like cars, electronics, etc. are ridiculously priced.

In Cape Town, property is also quite dear: was there last month looking at studios in the CBD: current prices are in the 800k-1m Rand range.  On a Sr. Lecturer salary (roughly 300k Rand p.a.), marginal taxes that top at 42%, and mortgage rates around 13-15%, affordability is an issue.  Plus side: Cape Town is WONDERFUL! :)

[nerdasaurus]

Is there a database somewhere that lists positions in South Africa? I have searched a few university sites but can't find any links to employment.

[wegie]

The ACU would probably be the best place to start.

[philabd]

There were two listings for South Africa jobs in my discipline this year on www.jobs.ac.uk.

[joesephpeabody]

Any opinions on U Stellenbosch?