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[mingus]

If you are non-Korean and have a huge hole in your head, through which all your brains have fallen out, then head to Korea.  Otherwise, I suggest a job elswhere, even Iraq.

[olddrone]

First of all, you need not to intimate a Korean moniker by disingenuously using a Korean name here as if you really know their culture, which goes against your own assertions.  Second, in your earlier post, you list all the problems in Korean educational culture, thus:

>However, I hope the author made a distinction between difficulties in adapting to Korean teaching culture (e.g., academic inflation in terms of degrees, lack of creative and critical thinking, lack of classroom participation, and so on), difficulties in adapting to Korean research culture (e.g., unquestioned authority and uninformed decision-taking, academic inflation in terms of non-substantial papers and domestic prizes, short-term thinking, lack of understanding of the difference between engineering/development and research, lack of research integrity, micromanagement, and so on), and difficulties in adapting to Korean culture as encountered in daily life (e.g., different food, different language, lack of personal space, and so on).

All of these allegations are applicable to American educational culture, as well.  (By the way please note that my response here is not knee-jerk emotive as I have nothing to inflame but state the observable facts)  The average graduation rate in Amurka (sic)—right off the bat I can quote—is about 55%  in state flagship institutions, and most of us are sweating at a beanery whose graduation rate in *six years* fall far, far below.  You talk about myopic decision-making in Korea; everyone operates under such quick-fix  “economic” paradigm, not just Koreans.  My students here in the US always go for “minimal effort for maximum return,”  That’s just human nature.

Is our system better than theirs?  Assuming so, why is it that America stands 37th in the world in high school math, far below Korean students?  Given such emphasis on their education from other countries, it then makes sense that there are more “forerunners” here in American universities than the natives.  It is these “societal rejects” (for the lack of better dicta) that cannot “hang” in their own native environment, and thus pushed all over the globe, if not kicked around.  That is my personal observation; if you really excel in your field, you do not, by and large, need to poke around the globe to earn your keeps. 

Have you never heard about grade inflation at Harvard? (It’s a dead horse by now)  Nearly 90% of my students disappear after receiving their financial aid checks; the delinquency of their debt might drown us all one of these days.  Do they enjoy a delayed gratification?  What do you think?   Sure, even my undergraduate students in capstone projects pretend to do a “research,” an instant nuking of dead and old ideas in the microwave.  Read Profscam on this topic.  Guess how many college professors in a research school will produce an original article/research?  It’s one out of ten according to Zwarling (sp?  Sorry, I read that during my second doctorate)  You talk about micromanagement; have you ever worked at any US beaneries?  If and when you do, you should assert your “Academic Freedom,” by all means, indeed.  But never use your school computer for your personal stuff, like posting on the CHE, otherwise they will censor and fire you!  Most schools have the right to do so.  And they should; true teachers and scholars and researchers would never waste their breath, whining, on a regular basis. 

“Nothing that is so is so” (Bill Shakespeare), indeed.

Old Drone

[sejong]

Sure, the problems I listed in a previous post are not unique to Korean universities. Whether these problems are more pervasive in Korea than in the USA, Canada, or Western Europe? Definitely, in my opinion, and people need to be aware of that when considering an academic position in Korea.

I am not going to respond to your ad hominem attacks.

[kukom]

Sure, the problems I listed in a previous post are not unique to Korean universities. Whether these problems are more pervasive in Korea than in the USA, Canada, or Western Europe? Definitely, in my opinion, and people need to be aware of that when considering an academic position in Korea.

Yes, I agree.
The degree of prejudice is the problem.

Moreover: At least in the USA, prejudice is not condoned by institutions, especially if there is definitive and obvious proof if it. It is deemed illegal . On the other hand, in Korea, it is condoned at/on all levels. By institutions, leadership, individuals, society and even by the Korean legal system ... 94% of Koreans oppose anti-racism laws and nearly 25% of them think discrimination is necessary according to an online survey conducted by a Korean lawmaker who is trying to introduce an anti-racism bill in Korea:

Source:  
Bill Renamed Pro-Multiculturalism Scheme
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2010/07/180_61617.html

Without anti-discrimination laws, prejudice will be condoned and will continue to exist until it is punishable by law. Even then, cases would have to be brought before a judge in order to establish a legal precedent.

Koreans are often hurt by the obvious truth, and olddrone may well be one of them, however, the truth must be brought forth in order to establish the facts as they really are, regardless of how hurtful it may happen to be for Koreans.

The truth is that Koreans support discrimination and the numbers really do back up this claim.

[kukom]

Racism in South Korea

https://sites.google.com/site/racisminsouthkorea/

[olddrone]

First of all, I am least impressed by your cherry-picked data-mining.  You can list all the data from Google, in fact.  All of them support your priori, a proof you have never done any research, much less written a scholarly article; similarly, your inelegant prose attests how you cannot string your alleged mother tongue together.  They deserve opulent silence.

Second, obviously, as a white male, you have never heard of racial inequity in American judicial system, economic system, and educational system, among others, which support covertly and judiciously and deliberately and cleverly “institutionalized racism,” the silent killer and cancer in American society at all levels.  Of course, in America you can loudmouth and lip-service your point in public while practicing the EXACT opposite in private: “Moreover: At least in the USA, prejudice is not condoned by institutions, especially if there is definitive and obvious proof if it. It is deemed illegal .”  Dream on.  Life is tougher when one is naïve and blooming, indeed.  What makes you think that Obama has so much trouble in his attempt to “lead” the nation?  There are certain states in America in which not a single county carried Obama during the last election—due to racism.  Of course, you do not want to quote such data as they fly in your face.  Yet you claim how in America it is illegal to be a racist.  Claim all you want.  But you cannot legislate morals and ethics (you don’t seem to grasp this fundamental stuff).  That is your God’s job, not we humans.  Did you not hear what former President Jimmy Carter had to say about Obama’s racial trouble earlier?

I am whiter than your little lily rear.  You assume my ethnicity, uninvited, unable to argue the points.  Let me do yours here:  You are one of those white men who prefer subservient “Aisan” women because you cannot stand the self-assertive, strong personality in most American white women, such as my wife.  Right?  Wasn’t it the real reason you hopped to Korea, Japan, and Thailand?  No wonder people in Asia have the perspicacity to see through the chaff, the husk, the societal reject.  Why should they bother with these fakes other than running and laundering them through the adjunct mill, hoping it to improve?

I stand by my earlier assertion—that if one is so smart and righteous as you claim, one does not have to plod the globe to find a chicken-feed job and then kicked in the rear and the teeth; only societal rejects, the surplus scholars, and the useless, cannot hang even in your own homeland pushed by forerunners.   That is good for American education, I’d say.  That’s good for American capitalism, the cut-throat competition red in tooth and claw.  You did not make the cut, pure and simple.  You ain’t it.

Third, last time I checked no Korean national has ever told Americans how it should run its racial policy; on the other hand, many intellectually-challenged, delusional individuals among us tell other nations how they should run their internal affairs as if we have something to be proud of here at home: the global economic meltdown, for example, was not caused by Koreans, was it?  Knee-deep in debt, we are already spending our great grand children’s money.  I know you are proud about that, too.  What role-model are we to tell the world the American bs?  The current economic meltdown was caused by the dim-witted, money-grabbing, donkey-haute idiots among us who were arrogant enough to tell the other people how they should conduct their lives, even invading other countries—with no just cause—while at the very home front of America people go jobless and hungry every day.  I know the likes of you.  This is precisely why they call us “Ugly Americans.”  Practice what you preach we cannot.  How easy it is to tell others what to do while your own house is on fire.  These inelegant intellectuals do not seem to understand how much we spend a month in a foreign battle fields—only to be kicked around later for our blood sacrifice.  Remember Somalia?  That money we spend in foreign countries can be used to employ the worst prepared intellectuals in America, in fact.

Where do you get this arrogance, this high moral ground, this self-importance, this hubris, of telling others how to live their lives while our own stinking house is not in order?  As I mentioned earlier, our educational system, among others, sucks worse than others.  Yet you have the gall to tell others what, why, and how to do.  That’s YOU.  Look at yourself in the mirror.

Finally, we have built America as a heterogeneous nation from the beginning.  Not so in Korea.  It is a homogeneous country with intermittent Mongol and Japanese mixes.  If you ever visit Korea, as I have recently, look around; there is only one hair color—black.  Now you go and tell them they should enact diversity and multiculturalism laws which we even in America have hard time instituting, much less practicing them.

I am not impressed by this hot air coming from just a few nameless Americans, obviously, with grossly inept educational preparation, looking for a job in sundry places in the global village, kicked in the teeth and then come home to whine about their failure.  I wonder, in fact, why must we, in America, swallow such leftovers from the village dump.  My America deserves better.

[sejong]

I am sorry for my late reply, but I was busy selling Ph.D. degrees and fabricating research (Hwang Woo-suk is currently reviewing my results, and he seems to be proud of me). Lately, I was also busy seducing some innocent Korean maidens and trading drugs...

It is ironic to see that you are quick to use stereotypes, while you yourself fit the stereotype of the insecure Korean male (“Mr. Two Doctorates”) angry on white men for stealing Korean women…

Anyway, to address some of your previous statements…

First, I fail to see how the problems of American academia can be used as an excuse to turn a blind eye to the problems of Korean academia, and where the former are dwarfed by the latter.

Second, I agree that certain matters are Korea-specific (e.g., holding faculty meetings in Korean is fine in my opinion -- how is this for instance done in France or other European countries?), and that in the end, Koreans have to take matters in their own hands if they are really interested in upgrading the international standing of their academic system (this was painfully illustrated by the dr. Laughlin debacle). However, as an academic, I think I am qualified to point out the weaknesses of the academic environment I am working in, and to warn other academics for these pitfalls. Nationality has, in principle, little to do with that.

Third, international mobility is a longstanding given in academia, and it is a regular occurrence in many if not most academic careers (it is often even a necessary condition for tenure).

[kukom]

First of all.... you have never done any research, much less written a scholarly article; similarly, your inelegant prose attests how you cannot string your alleged mother tongue together.  They deserve opulent silence.
....

I am whiter than your little lily rear.  You assume my ethnicity, uninvited, unable to argue the points.  Let me do yours here:  You are one of those white men who prefer subservient “Aisan” women because you cannot stand the self-assertive, strong personality in most American white women, such as my wife.  Right?  Wasn’t it the real reason you hopped to Korea, Japan, and Thailand?  No wonder people in Asia have the perspicacity to see through the chaff, the husk, the societal reject.  Why should they bother with these fakes other than running and laundering them through the adjunct mill, hoping it to improve?

I stand by my earlier assertion— that if one is so smart and righteous as you claim, one does not have to plod the globe to find a chicken-feed job and then kicked in the rear and the teeth; only societal rejects, the surplus scholars, and the useless, cannot hang even in your own homeland pushed by forerunners. that if one is so smart and righteous as you claim, one does not have to plod the globe to find a chicken-feed job and then kicked in the rear and the teeth; only societal rejects, the surplus scholars, and the useless, cannot hang even in your own homeland pushed by forerunners. That is good for American education, I’d say.  That’s good for American capitalism, the cut-throat competition red in tooth and claw.  You did not make the cut, pure and simple.  You ain’t it.

many intellectually-challenged, delusional individuals among us ...

Where do you get this arrogance, this high moral ground, this self-importance, this hubris, of telling others how to live their lives while our own stinking house is not in order?  As I mentioned earlier, our educational system, among others, sucks worse than others.  Yet you have the gall to tell others what, why, and how to do.  That’s YOU.  Look at yourself in the mirror.

I am not impressed by this hot air coming from just a few nameless Americans, obviously, with grossly inept educational preparation, looking for a job in sundry places in the global village, kicked in the teeth and then come home to whine about their failure.  I wonder, in fact, why must we, in America, swallow such leftovers from the village dump.  My America deserves better.

Dear olddrone


First of all, you are very entertaining to say the least. Thank you for keeping us all entertained.

I don't believe anyone has the vaguest idea who you're ranting about, but you really should refrain from any more personal attacks.

Overall, it surely appears that you're making far too many unfounded assumptions about our fellow posters and you seem disillusioned by your own self worth in comparison to us 'lowlifes' as you would have us perceived by your audience.

You speak of a lack of research, yet as history has taught us, those with inabilities to challenge others on the real issues, using real hard evidence, always resort to the last possible means of attack they have at their disposal: 'A smear campaign', which is exactly what you have done in your last post on this thread.

Please do not take it personally if we do not respond to any more of your posts, but do understand that we don't wish to be caught up by your cancerous rage.


Respectfully Yours

[kukom]

Here is a good page I came across on university education in the Republic of Korea:

https://sites.google.com/site/southkoreaneducation/home/university-education-in-south-korea

It puts teaching at Korean universities into clearer focus for those who are contemplating on taking up employment at a Korean university.

[insignificantother]

Heh, heh. Some people never learn. Should have read the thread here first before taking a job offer. The bait and switch thing is pretty common in South Korea. It really is a crap shoot signing a contract there:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=217700

[oldfullprof]

God, I love this thread.  Cum-op-sumnida for bringing it back!  Hey, I'm a white male, but I wear the Korean Presidential Unit Citation and the Korea Defense medal.

[minater]

Racism in South Korea

https://sites.google.com/site/racisminsouthkorea/

Thanks for informing us, kukom. I am planning to go to Korea.
Wish me luck!

[oldfullprof]

Most likely the Koreans learned the racism from the Japanese.  They're fvcks about that.  The average Koreans I met are some of the nicest people I know. 

[csguy]

Racism in South Korea

https://sites.google.com/site/racisminsouthkorea/

Thanks for informing us, kukom. I am planning to go to Korea.
Wish me luck!

As I just told someone -- "It's a job." It's probably not going to be a career for you but money is money.

[ilkayluna]

Cool.  Turkish transvestites on chat.  What better way to rejuvenate a dead thread?