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[brook]

Perhaps this is not the right place to post this, since this board is specifically about grad school.  But at the present time I can't find a better place and have been inspired to ask this question after reading several threads on this discussion board.

I ask this question as an academic advisor and career/personal counselor at a community college.  I am well aware that in fields such as accounting, education and engineering, your undergraduate major is very important if you want to pursue those options.  But for the most part, it has been my experience that the vast majority of students who will graduate from college will be valued by employers simply because they have a bachelor's degree, and that it doesn't matter whether it's in History, English, Econ, Business, or etc. 

In my case, I have a BA in Econ and Poli Sci from a well-ranked SLAC.  I worked in the corporate world for several years before I got an MA in Counseling Psychology. It seemed to me after graduation (with my BA)that no one really cared about my major, just that I had the degree and was competant enough to do the job well, or at least respond well to on-the-job training. 

I advise students to choose a major that they enjoy and to work very hard to maintain a high GPA.  Most of my students will go to mid-level colleges and probobly will not pursue further study.  But if they do choose to go on, I tell them that their GPA is very important, and that it is indeed possible to switch fields later on in life (as I have done.)  In my case I did have to "prove" my worthiness to my MA program by taking several undergard courses in psychology before I was admitted, which was fair. 

For the majority of students out there who just "want a job" and are not neccesarily looking to move on to grad school in the immediate future, do you agree or disagree that your undergrad major really matters?  Thanks!

[blue_pez]

By the numbers, I'd have to say yes, it does matter.  Sure, there are a lot of jobs that don't specify or don't care.  But there must be a reason for this:

http://resources.courseadvisor.com/education-trends/starting-salary

Why do chemical engineering majors make almost twice as much as psych majors?  That's a big difference, considering that the cost of education is typically the same for all programs.  Or if you want to exclude engineering, why do history majors make 10% more than English majors?

[litcrittr82]

Aside from fields like accounting and engineering, for which the purpose of the degree is primarily professional training, I don't think the undergraduate major matters much at all.  Ditto for science research jobs, for which you need to know your biology, chemistry, and lab techniques to be a hospital research assistant.  Most entry-level jobs require very little skill at anything in particular.  If your job is to run data on SPSS, for example, a sociology major who's used SPSS a few times won't be at much of an advantage over a history major who hasn't.  The work is so basic for most of these kinds of jobs that the training isn't much of a factor.  The employer will probably prefer someone who demonstrates achievement or a quick learning curve.  In my experience, as I've said elsewhere, employers are much more interested in signs of excellence and leadership in the resume, and not so much the major.  For that stock SPSS data entry/analysis job, I'm sure the first selection criteria are the quality and reputation of the degree, the GPA, and other signs of achievement.  Someone with a 3.9 in English from Columbia will *typically* get an entry-level finance job over someone with a 3.2 in Business from a less reputable school.  Down to the wire, anything, including the major, the hometown, the mood of the interview, could tip the scale in someone's favor.  

A contradictory point worth thinking about: business/finance employers now are saying they actively seek people with humanities degrees because of the analytical and writing advantages they usually show over business/finance/accounting majors.  


      

[dr_starbucks]

What they said.  It depends on the career chosen by the student. But just about everyone I know changed their major and are currently employed in a job unrelated to their major, so one's undergraduate major does not set your future into stone.  I think it is more important to tailor the undergraduate degree to address and improve specific areas that need improvement.  In my case, I wish I took more courses in writing and literature.

[prytania3]

What they said.  It depends on the career chosen by the student. But just about everyone I know changed their major and are currently employed in a job unrelated to their major, so one's undergraduate major does not set your future into stone.  I think it is more important to tailor the undergraduate degree to address and improve specific areas that need improvement.  In my case, I wish I took more courses in writing and literature.

Well, I have lots of courses in writing and literature. What do you have? Maybe we can switch off.

[jwormold]

What litcritt said. I've got lots of friends who were music, history, literature, or other humanities majors who are now doctors, programmers, i-bankers, etc. A math major friend is a farmer; another is a set designer. My own PhD is in a different area than my undergrad major.

[zharkov]

A contradictory point worth thinking about: business/finance employers now are saying they actively seek people with humanities degrees because of the analytical and writing advantages they usually show over business/finance/accounting majors.   

They've been saying this for a while, but I think there is a strong qualification:  It depends on the reputation and prestige of the school.

I know a history major who became a VP of a bank, but he went to the state flagship.  A Greek major who was hired out of school as a programmer trainee at a big company, but he graduated from a Potted Ivy SLAC. Another Potted Ivy grad, soc major, hired as an analyst at an insurance company.

But if you go to a No-name SLAC or Compass Point State College, being a business major is a safer bet than history, soc, or Greek, if you are thinking about the job market.

[prytania3]

A contradictory point worth thinking about: business/finance employers now are saying they actively seek people with humanities degrees because of the analytical and writing advantages they usually show over business/finance/accounting majors.   

They've been saying this for a while, but I think there is a strong qualification:  It depends on the reputation and prestige of the school.

I know a history major who became a VP of a bank, but he went to the state flagship.  A Greek major who was hired out of school as a programmer trainee at a big company, but he graduated from a Potted Ivy SLAC. Another Potted Ivy grad, soc major, hired as an analyst at an insurance company.

But if you go to a No-name SLAC or Compass Point State College, being a business major is a safer bet than history, soc, or Greek, if you are thinking about the job market.

I graduated in English from an Ivy school, and you don't see me working at a hedge fund. Oh no, instead I'm taking classes to pass the CPA exam. Sure, companies yack about wanting humanities people, but don't take it too seriously.

[brook]

Thank you all for the feedback.  I suppose my follow-up question is, what does the future hold for the mediocre students who will transfer to our so-so SLACs or the low-ranked state University in the area? 

[litcrittr82]

[quote author=prytania3 link=topic=51277.msg966612#msg966612 date=1214579743
I graduated in English from an Ivy school, and you don't see me working at a hedge und. Oh no, instead I'm taking classes to pass the CPA exam. Sure, companies yack about wanting humanities people, but don't take it too seriously.
[/quote]

Zharkov's caveat is generally true, though.  Hedge funds and Wall St. firms have a pretty narrow range of schools where they recruit.  But among the people at those schools (I graduated from one of them), they tend to love English majors (in my experience).  This goes to my point about job selection criteria: usually they're looking at where your degree is from and how well you did before they're looking at what you studied.  I had an interview last summer in which the interviewer told me point blank that as soon as she sees Harvard on the top of the resume, she's looking to hire.  I don't agree with this approach, and I think it's pretty shortsighted; but it speaks to what employers are really looking for.

Prytania, I'm not sure which Ivy you went to, and certainly I'm not expecting you to divulge, but I can think of at least one where the fancy firms recruit almost exclusively in the college of business, and not the college of arts and sciences, because there's a separation of colleges at the undergraduate level...and the business school is THE business school.

[hmaria1609]

Whenever I said I was a history major, I was immediately asked if I was going to be a teacher.
Now I'm a public librarian (went after undergrad and got the MLS) and skills that I acquired as history major have been applicable.

[prytania3]

[quote author=prytania3 link=topic=51277.msg966612#msg966612 date=1214579743
I graduated in English from an Ivy school, and you don't see me working at a hedge und. Oh no, instead I'm taking classes to pass the CPA exam. Sure, companies yack about wanting humanities people, but don't take it too seriously.

Zharkov's caveat is generally true, though.  Hedge funds and Wall St. firms have a pretty narrow range of schools where they recruit.  But among the people at those schools (I graduated from one of them), they tend to love English majors (in my experience).  This goes to my point about job selection criteria: usually they're looking at where your degree is from and how well you did before they're looking at what you studied.  I had an interview last summer in which the interviewer told me point blank that as soon as she sees Harvard on the top of the resume, she's looking to hire.  I don't agree with this approach, and I think it's pretty shortsighted; but it speaks to what employers are really looking for.

Prytania, I'm not sure which Ivy you went to, and certainly I'm not expecting you to divulge, but I can think of at least one where the fancy firms recruit almost exclusively in the college of business, and not the college of arts and sciences, because there's a separation of colleges at the undergraduate level...and the business school is THE business school.


[/quote]

Actually I started at that particular Ivy, but I was in the School of Engineering and Applied Science. Then I transferred to a different Ivy and majored in English because I found Ivy #1 to be too careerist. Silly me.

[imawakenow]

I suppose my follow-up question is, what does the future hold for the mediocre students who will transfer to our so-so SLACs or the low-ranked state University in the area? 

Repaying loans for a degree that marginally increases their job prospects, while simultaneously envying their brother-in-law who started as a plumber's assistant and now owns his own business and lake home.

[doctorious]

Perhaps this is not the right place to post this, since this board is specifically about grad school.  But at the present time I can't find a better place and have been inspired to ask this question after reading several threads on this discussion board.

I ask this question as an academic advisor and career/personal counselor at a community college.  I am well aware that in fields such as accounting, education and engineering, your undergraduate major is very important if you want to pursue those options.  But for the most part, it has been my experience that the vast majority of students who will graduate from college will be valued by employers simply because they have a bachelor's degree, and that it doesn't matter whether it's in History, English, Econ, Business, or etc. 

In my case, I have a BA in Econ and Poli Sci from a well-ranked SLAC.  I worked in the corporate world for several years before I got an MA in Counseling Psychology. It seemed to me after graduation (with my BA)that no one really cared about my major, just that I had the degree and was competant enough to do the job well, or at least respond well to on-the-job training. 

I advise students to choose a major that they enjoy and to work very hard to maintain a high GPA.  Most of my students will go to mid-level colleges and probobly will not pursue further study.  But if they do choose to go on, I tell them that their GPA is very important, and that it is indeed possible to switch fields later on in life (as I have done.)  In my case I did have to "prove" my worthiness to my MA program by taking several undergard courses in psychology before I was admitted, which was fair. 

For the majority of students out there who just "want a job" and are not neccesarily looking to move on to grad school in the immediate future, do you agree or disagree that your undergrad major really matters?  Thanks!

My honest answer would be "it depends." Based on my experience in the "real world" it really does seem to matter who you know -- or more accurately who knows you. However, that being said, I fundamentally wish I had gone to a state school (Cal State) and earned a degree in a more marketable field that translates to a career than to have slogged through a UC and come out with the very broad and ambiguous degree in English that I have. I think a degree in Marketing or maybe even Psychology would have given me more applicable "tools" to use in a "real world" situation. A BS in Marketing would have also cleared the path better for a PhD in Business for me. Of course, I have buyer's remorse 12 years later, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

[zharkov]

Thank you all for the feedback.  I suppose my follow-up question is, what does the future hold for the mediocre students who will transfer to our so-so SLACs or the low-ranked state University in the area? 

If you are asking about career prospects, an average student who attends a middlin' school would do better majoring in a professional field, like accounting, business, engineering, nursing, teaching, and so on. These are not generally easy fields, but an average student who works hard can make it.  And while there are no guarantees, the prospects are pretty good for leading a OK-ish to comfortable middle class life. The ideal field of choice also depends on the job market in your area, of course.