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[gourmand601]

What I would really like to see is a FP program with tenured faculty and a faculty senate that makes decisions. Not one that meets once a year and goes over yearly reports or decisions.  I would like to see a FP that encourages academic freedom. I would like to see a FP that does not have top down governance. These are things that separate FP from traditional universities.

While it has been a year or so since I checked, I believe that no FP doctoral program has been accredited by two of the most important accreditors, AACSB (business) and APA (psych). 

Argosy's PsyD is APA accredited. 

In Business, there are two accreditation bodies approved by CHEA. You have AACSB and ACBSP. AACSB focuses on faculty research and ACBSP focuses on research and teaching excellence. AACSB only accredits roughly 10% of business schools presently standing. ACBSP has met the demand for quality business education accreditation. Many good schools simply cannot afford AACSB. They also cannot afford to pay faculty $145K a year just to come, offer tenure, never be able to get rid of them, and teach three classes a day. It's just not feasible.

ACBSP serves a major purpose since AACSB accredits the major universities.

AACSB is not nearly as elite as you make it out to be.

A year or two ago, I think we estimated that about 500 schools are AACSB, 500 are ACBSP, and maybe another 1000 are accredited by neither.  This last group includes many schools where the department is rather small or the mission of the school is not very business focused (eg, a SLAC).

Nothing wrong with ACBSP, but if you look at the actual schools that are accredited, they tend to be Compass Point state colleges, CCs, and middle ranked private schools. (What I call teaching schools.)

AACSB requires faculty to be true scholars, to coin a phase.  They are expected to teach and research.  I would find it odd for any doctorate-granting university, non profit, public, or for profit, to not be a member.

And no, most business profs don't make $145K.  I'd expect the AACSB average for all disciplines, all schools, to be less than 100K, and probably in the 80s. (Based just on people I know.)
 

Interesting points made Zharkov. There is another accreditor, IACBE, but it is not recognized by CHEA. Schools like Belhaven College has that accreditation but have also coupled it with ACBSP.

According to the AACSB... in 2001 alone, the average salary for finance faculty was $133K. Accounting was $115. This is "new hire" data and at the professor level. Of course associate prof and assist prof are slightly lower. In 2006 these went up about another 2 percent.

At Jackson State University, the dean makes $225..... her salary is subsidized by private funds as is many other faculty salaries.

IACBE is what is known as a faux-creditor.

Thanks for the data.  It is higher than my pals make, but they have been in place for a while, and new hires often make more than old hands.  (This data is available for many public Us, btw.)

Also, keep in mind that the finance prof who makes 133K can double or triple his or her salary by working outside of academia.

I don't know if Walden has a finance concentration or not, but if it does, those are the kind of people the school would need to make the program credible, and if that is what they are worth, then that is what they are worth.

 

Zharkov..... oftentimes.. when an old head gets tenure.... his/her salary stops at that level too..... job security is there but I want an increase in salary too. I wouldn't want a youngin' coming in making more than me. :-)

Many finance profs do make more than their basic salary.. overall. For instance.... the dean at JSU makes 225 per annum for her appointment... but she is also an economist. I worked with a trial where she was an expert witness who did a number play on what the deceased would have made in her lifetime... etc.  She charged $1,200 an hour. That was 3 years ago.... and she's one of 3 African American females in the country with the Ph.D./JD/CPA/MBA designation.  I was jealous because I only got $500 an hour. lol

The liberal arts college does not pay me that much.... but that's the sacrifice I make for teaching 2-3 class a day of no more than 10-20 students. I do business and educational consulting and teach online to push me over the 6 figure range.

Zharkov.... a few more things.

AACSB accredits only Bachelor of Business Administration, MBA, MAcc, and Ph.D. in Business Administration degrees. Many smaller institutions don't offer such programs... A few examples:

The SLAC I work for only offers a BS or BA in Econ. Students and have a BAdmin emphasis.. but the degree says Economics. This degree is offered out of the social sciences division and most of the business students go to other institutions to get an MBA, MS, or law degree.... most just go on to law school.

Walden's bachelor completion and full-bachelor programs are BS in BAdmin..etc. WU offers an MBA, MIS, and MS in nonprofit leadership, but the Ph.D. is only in Applied Management and Decision Sciences. Ph.d. students can specialize in areas such as finance, leadership and org change, knowlege management, op research...etc. There are a total of 9 specializations.

Walden's Ph.D. finance program takes on average 6 years to complete.... I have a BBA in fiance and that was enough for me. lol Here is the link to the curriculum:  http://www.waldenu.edu/c/Schools/Schools_9448.htm

My Ph.D. is in AMDS and I took the general approach, which allowed me to have a broad research focus..... servant leadership, urban management, higher education, and urban higher education...the list goes on.

Some FPs like Capella and NCU offer BBA, MBA, and Ph.D. in Business Admin degrees. They both are accredited by ACBSP. Walden's management programs take a socially grounded approach, which is why a social change component must be plugged into everything written. It's kinda like attending a religious institution like Liberty.... no matter the major, all coursework must include a biblical citation and a biblical worldview component.

[charlesr]

According to the AACSB... in 2001 alone, the average salary for finance faculty was $133K. Accounting was $115. This is "new hire" data and at the professor level. Of course associate prof and assist prof are slightly lower. In 2006 these went up about another 2 percent.

At Jackson State University, the dean makes $225..... her salary is subsidized by private funds as is many other faculty salaries.
[/quote]

TrueScholar,  you are being disingenuous and you are datamining.  The $133K salary you cite is for finance PhDs hired at the full professor level. Coincidentally, I'm sure, it also happens to be the largest number in the table.  The average for finance full profs was $111K. For 2000-2001, newly hired finance Asst Profs averaged  $88.6K.  New doctorates hired at the Asst Prof level averaged $91.2K. 

[gourmand601]

According to the AACSB... in 2001 alone, the average salary for finance faculty was $133K. Accounting was $115. This is "new hire" data and at the professor level. Of course associate prof and assist prof are slightly lower. In 2006 these went up about another 2 percent.

At Jackson State University, the dean makes $225..... her salary is subsidized by private funds as is many other faculty salaries.

TrueScholar,  you are being disingenuous and you are datamining.  The $133K salary you cite is for finance PhDs hired at the full professor level. Coincidentally, I'm sure, it also happens to be the largest number in the table.  The average for finance full profs was $111K. For 2000-2001, newly hired finance Asst Profs averaged  $88.6K.  New doctorates hired at the Asst Prof level averaged $91.2K. 
[/quote]

Perhaps you should reread my post before you try to check me on it. I put for "new hire" and professor. I also wrote that assoc and assit professors made slightly less. It would also be wise to read how Zharkov and I chatted briefly how he had a friend who was in place for a while but made less... the comparison went into new hires and how faculty can push their overall income by doing other things.

Don't do it.

[mdwlark]

The difference between $88K and $133K isn't "slight." 

[gourmand601]

The difference between $88K and $133K isn't "slight." 

This is the issue with communication in this forum.... people half read. I quoted an actual for new hires. Charles quoted an average overall.... which includes new and old hands......Do you see the difference?

[charlesr]

According to the AACSB... in 2001 alone, the average salary for finance faculty was $133K. Accounting was $115. This is "new hire" data and at the professor level. Of course associate prof and assist prof are slightly lower. In 2006 these went up about another 2 percent.

As I remember, the question revolved around high salaries at AACSB schools.  You stated that the average salary for finance professors was $133K.  I do admit that in the next sentence you identified that this was for newly hired full professors. 

My question is, why chose that number as being representative of AACSB salaries, finance salaries, or salaries for new hires?  It is none of those.  The salaries of newly hired Asst Profs or new doctorates, both of which were in the report, would provide a clearer picture of the marketplace.

[untenured]

And whatever happened to slipdisco?

Untenured

[kedves]

Slipdisco has left the building.  The last post on 13 July said that Slipdisco had to decide between Capella and Walden.  We are left in suspense.

My question is, who enrolls in these programs?  They are quite expensive and there is no TA or RA job plus free tuition as there is in a conventional graduate program.  Are these students getting their employers to foot the bill, or paying for it themselves, location bound, or what?

[untenured]

Slipdisco has left the building.  The last post on 13 July said that Slipdisco had to decide between Capella and Walden.  We are left in suspense.

Pfft.  I call those pigeon posts.  People write in, spark a discussion, and disappear.  At least our buddy truescholar has the persistence to stick around.

My question is, who enrolls in these programs?  They are quite expensive and there is no TA or RA job plus free tuition as there is in a conventional graduate program.  Are these students getting their employers to foot the bill, or paying for it themselves, location bound, or what?

Yeah ... yeah!  That's exactly what I asked.  These darned programs are expensive.  Who would want to enroll at Walden and pay if you can get into a traditional Ph.D. program?

Like other issues raised, it has gone unanswered.

Untenured

[jonesey]

Yeah ... yeah!  That's exactly what I asked.  These darned programs are expensive.  Who would want to enroll at Walden and pay if you can get into a traditional Ph.D. program?

Like other issues raised, it has gone unanswered.

Untenured

Working adults. 

Many people can't quit their jobs, stop supporting their families and go to school for 7 years (at no pay).  They're working full-time and want a higher degree, so they go to Walden/Capella/Phoenix/Etc to get it. 

Some employers pay 100% for these degrees, some don't.  I'm in class with many K-12 employees (teachers, assistant principles, etc) and they're paying $790/credit for their doctorate with no reimbursement from their districts at all.  That's about $48,000 for an Ed.D.  That's quite a bit for these teachers, most of whom have M.Ed's from other FP institutions already. 

[untenured]

Working adults. 

Many people can't quit their jobs, stop supporting their families and go to school for 7 years (at no pay).  They're working full-time and want a higher degree, so they go to Walden/Capella/Phoenix/Etc to get it. 

Some employers pay 100% for these degrees, some don't.  I'm in class with many K-12 employees (teachers, assistant principles, etc) and they're paying $790/credit for their doctorate with no reimbursement from their districts at all.  That's about $48,000 for an Ed.D.  That's quite a bit for these teachers, most of whom have M.Ed's from other FP institutions already. 

This makes sense.  Your post is clear and factual.  Thanks jonesey.

Untenured

[zharkov]

Yeah ... yeah!  That's exactly what I asked.  These darned programs are expensive.  Who would want to enroll at Walden and pay if you can get into a traditional Ph.D. program?

Like other issues raised, it has gone unanswered.

Untenured

Working adults. 

Many people can't quit their jobs, stop supporting their families and go to school for 7 years (at no pay).  They're working full-time and want a higher degree, so they go to Walden/Capella/Phoenix/Etc to get it. 

Some employers pay 100% for these degrees, some don't.  I'm in class with many K-12 employees (teachers, assistant principles, etc) and they're paying $790/credit for their doctorate with no reimbursement from their districts at all.  That's about $48,000 for an Ed.D.  That's quite a bit for these teachers, most of whom have M.Ed's from other FP institutions already. 

Let me just add that the "first generation" non-traditional doctoral programs (eg, Saybrook, Fielding, Nova, Union) were targeted to mid-career students, average age 40-something.  It was difficult for such students to go for a doctorate with work and/or family responsibilities, but it was also felt that these more mature students -- 20 years older than a traditional doctoral student -- would need less supervision and were self-directed learners.

Walden must follow a different model, since TS reports being 32, if I recall correctly.  The "old time" programs seldom even admitted someone that young.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Also, keep in mind that the finance prof who makes 133K can double or triple his or her salary by working outside of academia.

At least, that's what they tell the school when negotiating their salary.

As an interesting factoid, according to stateuniversity.com the average full-time faculty salary at Walden is $56,769 ($84,718 male / $38,758 female). - DvF

[gourmand601]

Yeah ... yeah!  That's exactly what I asked.  These darned programs are expensive.  Who would want to enroll at Walden and pay if you can get into a traditional Ph.D. program?

Like other issues raised, it has gone unanswered.

Untenured

Working adults. 

Many people can't quit their jobs, stop supporting their families and go to school for 7 years (at no pay).  They're working full-time and want a higher degree, so they go to Walden/Capella/Phoenix/Etc to get it. 

Some employers pay 100% for these degrees, some don't.  I'm in class with many K-12 employees (teachers, assistant principles, etc) and they're paying $790/credit for their doctorate with no reimbursement from their districts at all.  That's about $48,000 for an Ed.D.  That's quite a bit for these teachers, most of whom have M.Ed's from other FP institutions already. 

Let me just add that the "first generation" non-traditional doctoral programs (eg, Saybrook, Fielding, Nova, Union) were targeted to mid-career students, average age 40-something.  It was difficult for such students to go for a doctorate with work and/or family responsibilities, but it was also felt that these more mature students -- 20 years older than a traditional doctoral student -- would need less supervision and were self-directed learners.

Walden must follow a different model, since TS reports being 32, if I recall correctly.  The "old time" programs seldom even admitted someone that young.

Hey Zharkov... actually... there aren't many people my age in the doctoral program. There are a few... but definitely not many. The average age is about 41 years of age for the doctoral program. When I enrolled into WU, I was an operations manager for a Fortune 500 company. I had actually taken the GMAT and gotten accepted into a Ph.D. program at JSU. But they wanted me to stop working to attend class during the day. I tried it for a semester but my job had total control over my life at that time.... So beginning a Ph.D. program at Walden was best for me because the mortgage just wasn't going to stop.

I'm very mature for my age, which is why I had no problems connecting with people at residencies. The few people I have collaborated with on publications are 40-46 years of age. But they are much "cooler" than I am.

Me getting into Walden was a borderline decision because I barely had enough work experience at the time. But things worked out with me being admitted conditionally. My admissions essay showed them that I was mature enough to take on such a task.

[kedves]

As an interesting factoid, according to stateuniversity.com the average full-time faculty salary at Walden is $56,769 ($84,718 male / $38,758 female). - DvF

Wow!  This difference caught my eye; is it a difference in assistant vs. full?

Does anyone know if there are graduate satisfaction studies of this sort of degree program (or of any PhD programs, for that matter)?