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[dr_dre]

I am so far from elite it's not even funny. If someone has a job and wants some sort of certification to ensure promotion, I think that's great. But I do worry for prospective students who misunderstand what they are actually getting with these sorts of degrees. I would hate to see anyone go into debt, for instance, to pursue one of these programs, thinking it might offer them opportunities that it does not.

Keep in mind that many of us here are in the humanities, where the job market is especially brutal. Obviously things are different in business schools, etc.

I'm just saying... looking forward to dancing on our graves is perhaps not the shortcut to opening minds.

[litcrittr82]

I just wanted to point out, truescholar, that if you want to represent your point of view in all this, you'd be better served by being less critical of 'traditional' institutions and less hyperbolic about the value of online education.  There are plenty of good reasons and circumstances for pursuing an online degree, given certain career goals.  But it's not exactly elitist or reactionary to suggest that an online degree is a major disadvantage for anyone seeking a tenure track appointment at a 'traditional' school.  People with Ivy League PhDs have enough difficulty finding the jobs they want in some disciplines.  And, btw, I'm not an old fogey; I'm younger than you by the better part of a decade.

[engineer_adrift]

OK, I'll bite - what is inherently wrong with a for-profit school?

Best wishes
E_A

The issue is not online education (I work for a university that has a large, successful, and good online program), but the for-profit nature of Walden and Capella.  They are corporations for the benefit of stockholders, and nothing can change that short of their conversion to 501(c)3 status, which we'll see long after even the 32-year-olds among us are dead.

[larryc]

TrueCholer, this forum is very friendly to online education. A lot of us teach online and are advocates of online teaching. And I have to say, if any of my online students made as many errors in grammar and spelling in one of my courses as you have made in this one thread, I would fail them.

People thinking about attending Walden are going to find this thread through Google searches, and are going to read your posts, and are going to think: "Holy cow, crazy person! Do I really want to go to Walden?"

[truescholar601]

Many posters on this site are quite young. Your arrogance will prevent you from engaging in any meaningful dialogue here. Any soft spot I might have had for online education or Walden has closed as I read your words. You do your cause no favors.

The level of arrogance I have is similar to the level of elitism you all are trying to push on this board. And other than Slipdisco's initial post, much of the dialogue on this board has been bias and baseless. All I'm doing is bringing a different side of the story to a bunch of traditionalists who consider themselves elite in academia. But you all get upset when I make my point.

Everyone does not except the truth. And I suppose that is normal when academics are trained to question the truth.

biased
accept

The issue is not online education (I work for a university that has a large, successful, and good online program), but the for-profit nature of Walden and Capella.  They are corporations for the benefit of stockholders, and nothing can change that short of their conversion to 501(c)3 status, which we'll see long after even the 32-year-olds among us are dead.

My grammitcal errors are from fast typing and reaction to what is being posted here. I accept my wrongs. I appreciate you pointing that out.

Capella is publicly traded. Walden is not and is a member of an international network of universities with over 270,000 students worldwide  and
25 institutions with 58 campuses in 16 countries. The President and Provost have all final say regarding the academics of the institution.

Many non-profit institutions are switching to for profit or are being bought out by for profit organizations because they simply cannot make it in this economy. With a growing number of nontraditional students, many smaller institutions cannot afford the necessary infrastructure to pull these students in. Academia is a business and institutions need financial support or they won't last. Just as much, many nonprofits adopt a for profit model of management and operation.

[scheherazade]

Many non-profits are switching?  I think not.  Honestly, did you just listen to everything the people at Walden told you and believe it?

And typing fast is no excuse, especially when the errors show up red-underlined while you're writing.  Did they not teach you about spell-check at Walden?

[truescholar601]

I just wanted to point out, truescholar, that if you want to represent your point of view in all this, you'd be better served by being less critical of 'traditional' institutions and less hyperbolic about the value of online education.  There are plenty of good reasons and circumstances for pursuing an online degree, given certain career goals.  But it's not exactly elitist or reactionary to suggest that an online degree is a major disadvantage for anyone seeking a tenure track appointment at a 'traditional' school.  People with Ivy League PhDs have enough difficulty finding the jobs they want in some disciplines.  And, btw, I'm not an old fogey; I'm younger than you by the better part of a decade.

Hi Litcrittr82. I commend you for taking interest in these discussions at an early age. And I agree with most of your statement. But it's very difficult to maintain a level ground when people are calling you names and referring you to a board for "suckers." :-)

I believe that at this point in time, there is a disadvantage for an online doctorate if a person wants to pursue a tenure track appointment. But it's not impossible. I too understand that appointments in non business and non education areas are increasingly difficult to find these types of appointments. But perhaps that is a direct result of the corporate demand placed on our society. One of my business professors use to joke that humanities are for loser tree-huggers. And even though he always got a lecture room full of laughs from the students, I don't agree with him. In fact, I really appreciate the discipline. But business is first. ;-)

I just want to make it clear that not all doctoral students, regardless of the institution, aspire to join the monastery of the professoriate. And to degrade the Walden doctorate based on that fact alone is totally unfair.

Thanks for your input.

[truescholar601]

Many non-profits are switching?  I think not.  Honestly, did you just listen to everything the people at Walden told you and believe it?

And typing fast is no excuse, especially when the errors show up red-underlined while you're writing.  Did they not teach you about spell-check at Walden?

Have you read any of articles in The Chronicle? I guess not since you spend so much time degrading people on the discussion boards.

[octoprof]

Many non-profit institutions are switching to for profit or are being bought out by for profit organizations because they simply cannot make it in this economy. With a growing number of nontraditional students, many smaller institutions cannot afford the necessary infrastructure to pull these students in. Academia is a business and institutions need financial support or they won't last. Just as much, many nonprofits adopt a for profit model of management and operation.

Examples? Many examples, please?

[truescholar601]

Many non-profit institutions are switching to for profit or are being bought out by for profit organizations because they simply cannot make it in this economy. With a growing number of nontraditional students, many smaller institutions cannot afford the necessary infrastructure to pull these students in. Academia is a business and institutions need financial support or they won't last. Just as much, many nonprofits adopt a for profit model of management and operation.

Examples? Many examples, please?

I obtained this information from reading The Chronicle. You're a subscriber?

[scheherazade]

Then provide examples.  Or a link, at least.

Given that you've claimed things repeatedly that have not stood the test of simple logic, I'd like you to support your statements.

[prytania3]

By looking at the number of posts under some of you all's name, I understand why you all spend so much time nitpicking what others have to say. Some of you have too much time on your hands. I primarily read the copy of The Chronicle that comes to my mailbox. I don't have as much time to sit at a computer pushing through almost 20,000 + posts to argue with complete strangers. With so much time, perhaps you all should try taking an online class from somewhere. Most institutions offer them now. Or perhaps put more work in the pipeline for publication or presentation.

Ah, you are singling me out, why? I didn't pick on your precious no-count Walden.

But for the record, it is easy to write 23 quick posts a day and have plenty of times to do other things. What's more, I know many people on this forum. They are, indeed, not strangers.

But I guess they keep you too busy as a Walden recruiter to have any time on your hands.

It's truly obvious you work for them.

[truescholar601]

By looking at the number of posts under some of you all's name, I understand why you all spend so much time nitpicking what others have to say. Some of you have too much time on your hands. I primarily read the copy of The Chronicle that comes to my mailbox. I don't have as much time to sit at a computer pushing through almost 20,000 + posts to argue with complete strangers. With so much time, perhaps you all should try taking an online class from somewhere. Most institutions offer them now. Or perhaps put more work in the pipeline for publication or presentation.

Ah, you are singling me out, why? I didn't pick on your precious no-count Walden.

But for the record, it is easy to write 23 quick posts a day and have plenty of times to do other things. What's more, I know many people on this forum. They are, indeed, not strangers.

But I guess they keep you too busy as a Walden recruiter to have any time on your hands.

It's truly obvious you work for them.

I am not employed by Walden University.

[octoprof]

Many non-profit institutions are switching to for profit or are being bought out by for profit organizations because they simply cannot make it in this economy. With a growing number of nontraditional students, many smaller institutions cannot afford the necessary infrastructure to pull these students in. Academia is a business and institutions need financial support or they won't last. Just as much, many nonprofits adopt a for profit model of management and operation.

Examples? Many examples, please?

I obtained this information from reading The Chronicle. You're a subscriber?

You need a new moniker. You are clearly not a scholar. If you say there are examples, then you should back your statements up with examples.

Not true.
Not a scholar.
Not sure about the 601 thing...

o. (for the record, I am not an octopus).

[truescholar601]

Many non-profit institutions are switching to for profit or are being bought out by for profit organizations because they simply cannot make it in this economy. With a growing number of nontraditional students, many smaller institutions cannot afford the necessary infrastructure to pull these students in. Academia is a business and institutions need financial support or they won't last. Just as much, many nonprofits adopt a for profit model of management and operation.

Examples? Many examples, please?

I obtained this information from reading The Chronicle. You're a subscriber?

You need a new moniker. You are clearly not a scholar. If you say there are examples, then you should back your statements up with examples.

Not true.
Not a scholar.
Not sure about the 601 thing...

o. (for the record, I am not an octopus).

No. I'm also an educator who doesn't believe in doing other people's work for them. I am not under peer review. I subscribe to The Chronicle just like everyone else on this board. I actually read mine from front to back. It gives me inspiration for more topics to put in the pipeline.

I have not stated anything that you cannot find by flipping through the last couple of months of this publication.