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[anthroid]

I have a faculty member who is writing a novel concerning her field, and she believes it is a scholarly activity that "counts" in one way or the other as something.  I don't completely agree, though I do take her point. 

She's also a full professor, so it "counts" only in a discussion of our (nonexistent) merit pay.

How does that kind of creative activity figure into the discussion?

[octoprof]

I once won third prize in a juried art show. I was on the TT at the time (in accounting!). Do you really think the university should have taken my creative work into account in the tenure decision?

In that case, no, but I'm talking about those in a creative field! (And sure, accounting can be creative, but I mean the arts).

What if I was in music? Electonic media?  IT?  Anthropology?  Where is the line, exactly?

No, OP's question is framed appropriately. There is wiggle room, though much less than you suggest.

"Creative" vs. ... ? "other"? fields is not a value judgment, merely a classification. Music, for example, is not referred to as a "science" field, even though there are lots of things that can be studied about it from a scientific perspective. That's just not its main emphasis. Similarly, the main emphasis of accounting is not on the creative process. In fact, I think that when accounting gets too "creative," people have a tendency to go to jail. ;)

Tenure standards for other fields do not include the same kind of "created from whole cloth" works that "creative" fields do. It may therefore be tempting to wonder how far those boundaries might be stretched. OP does not seem to be wondering whether he/she could get tenure credit for doing physics experiments, which is clearly a different kind of animal entirely -- cats vs. dogs. Instead, OP is wondering whether, if one's tenure requirements are to produce a bunch of leopards, one might also get credit for pumas, tigers, and housecats.

VP

Isn't that a pretty narrowminded view of art?  Hmm?

Oh, forget that comment.  It's a really narrow minded view of accounting (not that I expect you to know or care about accounting). Accounting is much more than financial accounting/financial statements, or tax accounting --- all cases where creativity can get one in big trouble. Accounting also includes, for example, management accounting, in which creativity is very useful and encouraged.

Even those in the hard sciences and math need to think creatively to solve new and unusual problems.

My point is creativity is good.  Even in fields that some folks don't think are creative.  Does that mean my art is helpful for tenure?  Probably not. But aren't well-rounded professors a better option than horribly narrowly focussed professors who can't see anything beyond their little academic world?  I've met a few of those in accounting, for sure.

The idea, implied in the OP, that only the arts are creative, is what I'm arguing against.

I have, in fact, known accounting professors who wrote novels about accounting and then used them in their teaching very effectively (and sold them to other professors and students for the same purpose).

[cranefly]

The idea, implied in the OP, that only the arts are creative, is what I'm arguing against.

Good lord, I did not mean to imply that it is not creative-- I even SAID accounting can be creative, but what I refer to is what are traditionally called "creative arts" which includes creating artistic works-- music, dramatic performance, visual arts, and so on. Institutionally, these are often housed in the same place.

I'll get more specific and perhaps someone can offer me advice or examples where someone in drama, visual arts, "multimedia", or music departments were credited for work outside their departmental discipline, but still within the "creative arts". Having a multi-disciplinary background, I find it difficult to be housed in a specific department when I want to create works that are not necessarily part of that department. I was hired because I have these multi-disciplinary skills, but I'm concerned that come tenure time, it's not going to fly with some in the department who don't like the direction I've taken.

[octoprof]

Having a multi-disciplinary background, I find it difficult to be housed in a specific department when I want to create works that are not necessarily part of that department. I was hired because I have these multi-disciplinary skills, but I'm concerned that come tenure time, it's not going to fly with some in the department who don't like the direction I've taken.

This description exactly fits me, in fact. Except my "works" aren't creative in the artistic sense. But, I was hired because of my multi-disciplinary skills, not only in X, but in Y, Z, Q and P. However, I'm employed in department X and they only seem to want me to publish in the top three journals of discipline X, rather than in the journals of Y, Z, Q, and P, in which I also excel.

So, the interdisciplinarity problem is probably a fairly generally encountered problem by a lot of faculty, notwithstanding the creativity issue mentioned previously.

[bacardiandlime]

so what's the consensus here? I would have assumed that my writing a novel, or building a boat, or recording a triphop album, or inventing a fabulous cocktail, had nothing to do with my academic career.

I have worked as an artist, and it never occurred to me to put this on my academic cv (I am not in fine arts or history of art); I certainly wouldn't expect it to help with gaining an academic job (in fact I think it is the kind of thing that would be mocked on these fora as cv padding), so why should such things assist with tenure?
 

[cranefly]

Bacardi-- I'm talking about those who work in creative arts. I get credit for creating "art", but what constitutes "art" is subjective.

[doctor_torrseal]

Here's what you do.  You write a novel that is obviously a roman a clef - after all, there are so few good novels in an academic setting these days - and you make the character who corresponds to your chair smart, sexy, and leading a double life as an adventurous mountain climber and secret agent who can kill an evil henchman with her bare hands.

That will help get you tenure.

Sincerely,
Your Chair

[polly_mer]

Having a multi-disciplinary background, I find it difficult to be housed in a specific department when I want to create works that are not necessarily part of that department. I was hired because I have these multi-disciplinary skills, but I'm concerned that come tenure time, it's not going to fly with some in the department who don't like the direction I've taken.

As I see it, you have two options.

A) Channel your efforts to produce only items that this particular department claims to want for tenure and hope that nothing changes between now and when you submit your tenure packet.

B) Do the things that interest you and will give you a solid CV even if those things are not exactly what this department wants to see in order to award tenure.

Personally, I would take option B.  Blowing off tenure requirements to effectively play video games is stupid.  Taking your scholarly work in the directions that are of greatest interest to you and risking that you will need to change institutions in a few years to get the best environment for that work seems much smarter to me.

[voxprincipalis]

The other thing that occurs to me, as I continue to mull over this topic, is that in my ideal world the academic job is a big portion of defining my artistic identity, but not the whole of it. There are parts of what I do artistically that don't count for tenure, but they're still important things for me to be doing, so I do them anyway. Applying tenure requirements to one's artistic career is kind of like using a sieve to separate items -- things that fit through the holes in the sieve fall through and get neatly sorted into tenure categories, but there are going to be items that remain in the sieve. To me, this is OK, so long as enough gets through the sieve to fulfill the tenure categories.

I think when you get in trouble is when you *don't* have enough things in the traditional areas required by your department and are looking for ways to force things through the sieve. ;)

VP

[minnesotan]

I think when you get in trouble is when you *don't* have enough things in the traditional areas required by your department and are looking for ways to force things through the sieve. ;)

Just take on some part-time accounting work, and the tenure committee should be satisfied.

[oldfullprof]

I have 4-5 chapters of a memoir done...