next »

[prytania3]

Wherever the white hipsters can push out the original residents of those neighborhoods.

This is how it goes down: The Latinos push out the blacks. Artists move in. Students move in. Then some pioneering gay people move in and start opening pixie restaurants and cafes. Then the white folks push out the Latinos, and voila, you have gentrification.

If I've seen it once. I've seen it a dozen times.

Several neighborhoods defy this estimation: Ft. Greene, Bed-Stuy, and Clinton Hill pop most readily to mind, but also the north Slope, parts of Williamsburg (which were old Italian or Hasidic strongholds), Chinatown, Kensington, and Prospect Heights. Gentrification also comes in many forms, not always driven by artists or students. And in some neighborhoods, it begins first as a class dynamic before it becomes a racial one.

The north Slope? Where the hell is that? That must be the area referred to as Park Slop back in the day. Williamsburg had a huge Puerto Rican community. The painters moved in. Bed-Stuy had Pratt students and poets. Also, Bed-Stuy is not quite there yet. At least not in the way the East Village or Morningside Heights are there. These neighborhoods may defy that estimation a little but not all that much.

Harlem, however, is following this pattern exactly.

[infopri]

This is how it goes down: The Latinos push out the blacks. Artists move in. Students move in. Then some pioneering gay people move in and start opening pixie restaurants and cafes. Then the white folks push out the Latinos, and voila, you have gentrification.

If I've seen it once. I've seen it a dozen times.

You forgot the first step, pry:  The blacks push out the Jews.  Then the Latinos push out the blacks, etc.

One area that followed a different trend, though, is Little Italy, where the Chinese pushed out the Italians.  The last time I was there, all that was left of Little Italy was one little block on Mulberry Street. 

Several neighborhoods defy this estimation: Ft. Greene, Bed-Stuy, and Clinton Hill pop most readily to mind, but also the north Slope, parts of Williamsburg (which were old Italian or Hasidic strongholds)

Parts of Williamsburg are still Hasidic.  In Williamsburg, it seems that we skipped the blacks and went straight to Latinos, in the parts that are no longer Hasidic.

The north Slope? Where the hell is that? That must be the area referred to as Park Slop back in the day.

It's still Park Slope.  I'm guessing that the_scene is referring to the northern part of Park Slope.

[prytania3]

Parts of Williamsburg are still Hasidic.  In Williamsburg, it seems that we skipped the blacks and went straight to Latinos, in the parts that are no longer Hasidic.

That's true. A rule of thumb for would-be real estate moguls is to observe when real estate prices are rising, and there's a shortage of housing in traditional "good" neighborhoods, then buy a place in a Latino neighborhood. You make a fortune every time. My only problem is that I always sell out too soon.

The north Slope? Where the hell is that? That must be the area referred to as Park Slop back in the day.

It's still Park Slope.  I'm guessing that the_scene is referring to the northern part of Park Slope.

Right. Formerly referred to as "Park Slop."

[carebearstare]

My point is that neighborhoods like Clinton Hill and Ft. Greene were traditionally black middle class neighborhoods that have never (and still don't) have an appreciable Latino population. It has also long had a student population that didn't notably begin to gentrify the neighborhood until maybe 10 years ago. Bed-Stuy is not gentrified yet, but it too began to be moved into by middle class black buyers before white buyers or younger white renters. That neighborhood is also heavily Caribbean, many of whom have always been middle class.

"North Slope" is the area around 3rd and 4th Avenue and St. Marks, also near Fulton Mall.

The third stop on the L in Williamburg is heavily Italian--or at least was as of a couple of years ago, before it started to gentrify.

Sunnyside is another example of a neighborhood with a really diverse ethnic population that is beginning to be taken over.

This is just to say that in New York, the pattern gets disrupted all the time. Students will move anywhere, but artists won't necessarily (thus the higher concentration of them in loft-friendly places like Bushwick and Williamsburg over Prospect Heights and the Slope). Pioneering young couples of all races, I have seen, also tend to be willing to move anywhere. It's when they set up, get a little money, and start popping out babies that things change.

[thenewyorker]

Parts of Grand and Mott are still Little Italy, but Chinatown in still growing by leaps and bounds. I technically live in the LES, but it is really now Chinatown.
Jews pushed out by Dominicans pushed out by middle class whites pushed out by Chinese pushed out by middle class whites again.

Many of the German Jews moved out of the LES up to what is now Yorkville in the Upper East Side after the sinking of the General Slocum in 1904, which, until September 11th, remained the larges loss of life in NYC history (between 1,200 and 2,000 mostly women and children who were out for a Sunday cruise on the East River). So many households were affected that it was unbearable to live in the neighborhood.

I don't think the Hasidic portion of Williamsburg will ever be anything but.
Prytania is right about the real estate. I lived on Keap street for a few months in what is now being advertised as Williamsburg on craigslist, but is really not.... The Puerto Rican residents of my bldg paid around $500-$700 for a two-bedroom that increased exponentially once the original residents moved out and the space went from rent control to rent stabilization. Many of the new landlords were the Hasids who lived one street over. When I moved out of my place the landlord got to jack it up several hundred dollars more.

And almost all of the L from Bedford to Bushwick is now white middle-class hipsters. I am not sure how the L is going to accommodate all of its passengers very soon. It is standing room only morning, noon and night.

[prytania3]

"North Slope" is the area around 3rd and 4th Avenue and St. Marks, also near Fulton Mall.

There used to be Park Slope and Park Slop, and 3rd and 4th Aves were part of Park Slop.

Hey, I didn't make it up.

[carebearstare]

"North Slope" is the area around 3rd and 4th Avenue and St. Marks, also near Fulton Mall.

There used to be Park Slope and Park Slop, and 3rd and 4th Aves were part of Park Slop.

Hey, I didn't make it up.

I believe it! We used to call it "Sketch Slope" or "Park Nope"

[jwormold]

"North Slope" is the area around 3rd and 4th Avenue and St. Marks, also near Fulton Mall.

I called the area I lived in "Sleazy Slope." 
There used to be Park Slope and Park Slop, and 3rd and 4th Aves were part of Park Slop.

Hey, I didn't make it up.

I believe it! We used to call it "Sketch Slope" or "Park Nope"

[jwormold]

Oh crap. What was supposed to appear below the quote was that I used to call the part of the Slope I used to live in Sleazy Slope.

It de-sleazed amazingly in the two years I was there.

[prytania3]

Oh crap. What was supposed to appear below the quote was that I used to call the part of the Slope I used to live in Sleazy Slope.

It de-sleazed amazingly in the two years I was there.

I lived on 9th Street and PPW in 1979. That was right on the border of very dicey back then. Now it's primo turf.

You know, I miss Washington Heights. I dream about it every week, but I have to say, I don't miss Brooklyn one damn bit. Sorry.

Oh, but it is where all the cool kids live now. IfI'm going to live in a borough, I prefer Queens or the Bronx.

[infopri]

I lived on 9th Street and PPW in 1979. That was right on the border of very dicey back then. Now it's primo turf.

You know, I miss Washington Heights. I dream about it every week, but I have to say, I don't miss Brooklyn one damn bit. Sorry.

Oh, but it is where all the cool kids live now. IfI'm going to live in a borough, I prefer Queens or the Bronx.

I dunno, I think Brooklyn might be a good bet, if Manhattan was off the table.

[doctor_torrseal]

NB, this post written from a $1400 1BR in Carroll Gardens. Long live the G train!

Save the G!   http://www.savetheg.org/

The page you linked to is still urging folks to call Governor Pataki.  Either the G train service cuts is an out-of-date issue, or it's still current but the webmasters haven't bothered to update the page to reflect the fact that Pataki was two governors ago.

Well, who can blame them?  Governors of New York just come and go these days, like drummers for Spinal Tap.  Or maybe they just are on a campaign to keep annoying George Pataki.  I could see the sense in that.

Seventy-five years ago, my grandmother was a Jewish hipster from Brownsville.  There is nothing new under the sun.  Admittedly, she was raised in Brownsville but had to go into Manhattan to engage in hipsterism (when it was still called Bohemia), but these things go in cycles of a sort.

I think the bridge-and-tunnel prejudice of the SATC sort is a phenomenon of a certain class, and a time - '80s, velvet ropes, spike heels, and once upon a time when people read Spy magazine.  There are still people who think that way, but it's as dated as a Hall and Oates video.  If you want to see the whole class and bridge-and-tunnel issue from another perspective, watch Saturday Night Fever again.  People think of that movie as simply Travolta, white suit, dance moves, but it is actually much harsher and bleaker than most people remember.

[verafrance]

Hah.  They'll all be too self-absorbed to stare at you.  If you block their way, however, they'll cheerfully walk over you.

And don't forget to give at least  two ugly looks per block to random people coming towards your direction on the sidewalk. You'll fit right in.

[thenewyorker]

Particularly is they are walking against traffic on the wrong side of the freaking sidewalk (or on the subway stairs)!