next »

[bacardiandlime]

It's not a CHE article, but someone has a bee in his bonnet about the image that Indiana Jones gives archaeologists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR2008052302453.html

It's somewhat disingenuous, because by saying that the attitudes Indiana Jones represents are 'no longer' they way the discipline operates, he serves to suggest that Indiana Jones and his adventures *are* on some level accurate to how archaeology used to be. Indiana Jones is not just fictional, his adventures in the films took place 50+ years ago.
People in a lot of disciplines might squirm at practices in their disciplines from half a century ago.

I also think Indiana Jones is cool, and as for other fictional archaeologists, there is Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt (only one film so far, Sahara, but about a zillion books). I guess Lara Croft never claims to any academic enterprise, just theft.

I wish historians had someone as cool. We've got Nicholas Cage in National Treasure, so I guess that's a start. And if the AHA wants to put him on the board, I don't have a problem with it.

[claragold]

I wish historians had someone as cool. We've got Nicholas Cage in National Treasure, so I guess that's a start. And if the AHA wants to put him on the board, I don't have a problem with it.

Not cool, and a vilain, but in an equally famous pop culture production, there is Sir Leigh Teabing, although a secondary character.

As the Post article shows, everything is always about marketing.

"and the Archaeological Institute of America, a venerable academic organization of classical archaeologists and art historians, has elected Harrison Ford to its board of directors, in tribute to his "significant role in stimulating the public's interest in archaeological exploration."

I mean, to commend him is one thing, to elect him to the board is another. One can only wonder to the board of what "venerable" academic organization will we see Madonna or Angelina Jolie elected next...

[bacardiandlime]

Well, Angelina Jolie is good enough for the UN. And for playing Lara Croft, the archaeologists could elect her to their board too!

[claragold]

UN/Jolie - that is true. I had forgotten about that...

[jackit]

Getting Harrison Ford to stump for real archeology?  Is this really a bad idea?  Wouldn't he  sound cool doing narration for a documentary on a real archeological study?

There is that core idea in his adventures that the past is mysterious, yet still dangerous, and worth trying to recapture.  That's not all bad...

[magistra]

Except that archaeology never was anything like Indy.  By the late 19th century, the major digs were organized by universities, museums, and the archaeological institutes.  It was all quite standardized long before WWII.  Even in the wild and woolly days before archaeology was a real discipline (emphasis on discipline), it wasn't about tracking down and stealing one mystical object.  It was about finding tombs or sites and digging as quickly as you can, while liberally bribing local bigwigs and customs officials.

I'd love to see Indy at an actual dig.  You know, doing some measuring and surveying, working that theodolite, patiently digging in one small square for hours with a trowel, sifting for small finds, cleaning off potsherds...

[lincolns_ghost]

I wish historians had someone as cool. We've got Nicholas Cage in National Treasure, so I guess that's a start. And if the AHA wants to put him on the board, I don't have a problem with it.

I don't think Cage's character was ever an actual historian was he?  My (dim) memory from seeing it on TV was that the whole family had sort of a life long mission to track down that treasure.  Again, I'm going on memory here but Jones actually was a teaching archaeologist at some college and I can't recall that whatever-Cage's-charater's-name-was was employed as a historian.

As for putting Cage on the board---or any other actor playing a historian? I'd be against it.  Use them for PSAs, recruiting or whatever but the board that directs policy that affects my professional life? Nah, I'd rather have a working historian from an institution, university or library.

[bacardiandlime]

magistra:

wasn't Roy Chapman Andrews basically like Indiana Jones? As for accuracy of the field (OK, palaeontology), surely the IMAX documentary 'Dinosaurs' sums it up?

You have these very earnest academics evidently re-enacting their discoveries, with stilted 'Hey Jim, come look at this' dialogue, and they lie on the ground and scratch in the dirt for maybe five minutes before discovering a new species.

Lincolns_ghost:

I thought Nicholas Cage's character made some reference to a PhD (but I could be misremembering). It didn't look like he was actually employed by a university, but surely you don't disqualify all the independent scholars (many of whom with PhDs) from being called 'historians'?

[claragold]

Getting Harrison Ford to stump for real archeology?  Is this really a bad idea?  Wouldn't he  sound cool doing narration for a documentary on a real archeological study?

There is that core idea in his adventures that the past is mysterious, yet still dangerous, and worth trying to recapture.  That's not all bad...

(things are a bit quiet here today...)

I would love to see him starring in a movie where he goes to some poor country where millions of people are starving, he arrives with his multi-million dollar grant to dig up his little precious treasures from the past, with total oblivion to the suffering of the present, and they actually show the complete misery of the country he does his lofty academic archeology in. Then he could come and post on these fora about how bad the coffee buffet was at the particular hotel he was staying, could anyone suggest a better hotel?

Somehow I think they would decide to de-elect him from the Most Venerable, Honorable, and Magnanimous Archeologists Board in a jiffy...

[bacardiandlime]

I'm sure if you visit the Conferences and Academic Travel thread you'll find people who went to a poor country for a conference, and are complaining about how much they paid in conference registration fees and the lack of free wifi in the hotel.

But so what? He's meant to be an ARCHAEOLOGIST, not on a mission with Medecins Sans Frontiers.

[claragold]

I'm sure if you visit the Conferences and Academic Travel thread you'll find people who went to a poor country for a conference, and are complaining about how much they paid in conference registration fees and the lack of free wifi in the hotel.

But so what? He's meant to be an ARCHAEOLOGIST, not on a mission with Medecins Sans Frontiers.

There you go, problem solved.

[akimbo]

I'd love to see Indy at an actual dig... 

I would love to see him starring in a movie where he goes to some poor country ...

When I first saw Raiders of the Lost Ark, I had thoughts like this, too.


But mostly it was "I'd love to see Karen Allen in a bikini."

[lincolns_ghost]

Lincolns_ghost:

I thought Nicholas Cage's character made some reference to a PhD (but I could be misremembering). It didn't look like he was actually employed by a university, but surely you don't disqualify all the independent scholars (many of whom with PhDs) from being called 'historians'?

God no!  I meant only that I thought it was more or less a family *obsession* rather than the character being any sort of trained *historian* beyond (say) a BA major in history or study of the family's specific historical obsession.  I wouldn't call someone with an undergrad major in History an "Independent Scholar" unless s/he/it had some sort of vocational credential (published writing, a job with a library, museum, etc).

My grandfather had a BA from Harvard where he majored in history, he read everything ever published on his own family's colonial community and was a hella smart guy.  He wasn't a *historian* of the sort I'd want to see determine policy for my professional organization (not at the annual dues they charge me at any rate!).

  A grad school friend who didn't find a teaching/U job?  Sure, the guy is deeply involved with public history through various institutions in paid and unpaid capacities and is publishing local histories that are solid and general audience oriented. He is involved in various public history education grant initiatives, attends professional conferences and so on.  I'd love to see him on the AHA board. He's a working historian, not a guy following a 200 year *family* project.

[magistra]

Getting Harrison Ford to stump for real archeology?  Is this really a bad idea?  Wouldn't he  sound cool doing narration for a documentary on a real archeological study?

There is that core idea in his adventures that the past is mysterious, yet still dangerous, and worth trying to recapture.  That's not all bad...

(things are a bit quiet here today...)

I would love to see him starring in a movie where he goes to some poor country where millions of people are starving, he arrives with his multi-million dollar grant to dig up his little precious treasures from the past, with total oblivion to the suffering of the present, and they actually show the complete misery of the country he does his lofty academic archeology in. Then he could come and post on these fora about how bad the coffee buffet was at the particular hotel he was staying, could anyone suggest a better hotel?

Somehow I think they would decide to de-elect him from the Most Venerable, Honorable, and Magnanimous Archeologists Board in a jiffy...

Wow.  Way to slander an entire field.  Never mind that that grant (multimillions?  for archaeology?) would be an important addition to the local economy.  And all finds would be held locally.  Or that archaeology can be an enormous boost for the tourist economy.  Or that most archaeologists are very sensitive to the modern context of the cultures they study, i.e. the poor people around them.  And we're often in tents and other crappy accommodations while in the field -- no hotels nearby.  Unless, of course, we're digging in a modern, wealthy nation, which, you know, also often have cultures worth exploring.

I know you were trying to be provocative, and guess what?  It worked.  But you didn't make yourself look good in the process.

B&L -- not familiar with Andrews (not my field), but from what I'm reading, he wasn't really an archaeologist, but an explorer and promoter.  There are a few wild characters in archaeology, but the real work is often pretty tedious.

[tenured_cat]

I'd love to see Indy at an actual dig.  You know, doing some measuring and surveying, working that theodolite, patiently digging in one small square for hours with a trowel, sifting for small finds, cleaning off potsherds...

My first visit to a dig (something Roman) was on the most depressing, cold, drizzly November day imaginable. The trench couldn't be drained. I got a really good image of what it would mean squatting in there, for hours on end, patiently brushing away with something akin to a toothbrush. This was the point when I decided on ethnohistory (my first field).