Israeli History at 60 - falsified
catarin:
Regarding Britain's right to make decisions for the Arab/Muslims/Turks in Palestine after WWI, the Brits were the victors and the Muslims (Ottomans) the losers.! I'm guessing you would have to study all the documents involved with the end of of the war in the Middle East, because Arabia, Iraq and other countries were involved too. Evidently the rest of the world thought these were decisions that were England's right to decide, being the victor. I wonder if this would affect the lawsuit the youth of Palestine want to file, because they were, in effect, "a conquered people". (I don't like calling the Arab/Muslims in Palestine "Palestinians" because for centuries the Jews were known as Palestinians.
Can't you imagine the rage the Jews felt when they escaped from Europe and finally came to Israel after being rejected by other ports? They had gone silently to their deaths by the Nazis. (I'm repeating what I heard on the telly.) They had lost people who were the nearest and dearest to them. They had lost all they owned. They were ready to fight.
It has mostly been extremist Muslims who have caused the trouble. And I bet you they are the ones who came after 1948. It is a world-wide Muslim cause to have the Holy Land for themselves. They want the entire Middle East. They want Spain and Europe. They want Britain. They've threatened the United States, made inroads into South America and Africa. Look at Sudan. A wicked Arab Ruler in the north preventing black natives in the south from sharing in the wealth. I mean, how many warnings do we have to get????!!
catarin:
Sorry, Pyshnov, about getting your name wrong. I just glanced at it and didn't repeat it to myself. In Russian, what does the -nov mean?
About your experience in Russia, didn't the KGB come in the night to take you away? Didn't they harass you? Weren't you constantly spied on? We kids were taught the Commie pinkos were the worst people on earth, and they were going to drop the A-bomb on us.
BTW, the current thought on the assassination of President Kennedy is that brother Bobby as Attorney General had gone after the Mafia to such a degree, with the entire government squeezing them, that they did it. They vacationed in Cuba at the gambling clubs so that could be the connection with Fidel Castro, whom the US had tried to assassinate. The theory is Bobby didn't go full-speed after the Mafia because deep down he knew it was his fault. I can't remember what the reason was the Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan shot Bobby Kennedy. He complained he had served 40 years for this murder and why couldn't he get parole? He checked in but he will never check out...
solly:
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Didn't Benny Morris call much of what Ilan Pappé, Avi Shlaim, and Tom Segev wrote "fabricated
Morris and Pappe disagree primarily on matters of morality, not fact. In any case they are in agreement on the facts posted above.
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Palestinian history is mostly fabricated
Should I take it you have some references supporting this statement that you wish I would read?
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To claim that the Palestinians are an "indigenous people" is the epitome of revisionist history.
The "claim" is borne out by DNA evidence
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"A new study shows that the genetic makeup of Jews and Arabs is almost identical, and that both groups share common prehistoric ancestors."
Tamara Traubman Ha'aretz (November 21, 2001).
"About two-thirds of Israeli Arabs and Arabs in the territories and a similar proportion of Israeli Jews are the descendents of at least three common prehistoric ancestors who lived in the Middle East in the Neolithic period, about 8,000 years ago. This is the finding of a new study conducted by an international team of scholars headed by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim, a senior geneticist in the Hebrew University's hematology department and at Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem.
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=636
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From the end of the 19th Century to 1948, their numbers were vastly augmented by emigrants from other parts of the Arabs world
Justin McCarthy, Professor of History at the University of Louisville wrote:
"From analyses of rates of increase of the Muslim population of the three Palestinian sanjaks, one can say with certainty that Muslim immigration after the 1870s was small. Had there been a large group of Muslim immigrants their numbers would have caused an unusual increase in the population and this would have appeared in the calculated rate of increase from one registration list to another... Such an increase would have been easily noticed; it was not there.
The argument that Arab immigration somehow made up a large part of the Palestinian Arab population is thus statistically untenable. The vast majority of the Palestinian Arabs resident in 1947 were the sons and daughters of Arabs who were living in Palestine before modern Jewish immigration began. There is no reason to believe that they were not the sons and daughters of Arabs who had been in Palestine for many centuries."
http://www.amazon.com/Population-Palestine-History-Statistics-Institute/dp/0231071108
Here are the "Arab" population figures (in thousands). There does not appear to be a spike.
1860/411 1890/553 1914/738 1918/689 1931/860 1940/1,086 1946/1,308 1950/1,170 1960/1,340
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First, the Irgun and the Stern gang were attacking British Soldiers.
Even Wikipedia cites Irgun attacks against Arab targets resulted in at least 250 Arab deaths during 1936-1939.
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As far as I can tell, neither exploded a single bomb in London.
Not quite so, on September 3, 1947, a postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8) A total of 20 letter bombs were sent to high British governmental officials. Recipients included Ernest Bevan, Anthony Eden, Prime Minister Attlee and Winston Churchill.
http://www.doublestandards.org/unbunche.html
I would suggest that the assassination of Lord Moyne, British Deputy Resident Minister of State in Cairo On November 6, 1944, blowing up the British embassy in Rome in 1946, the assassination of the UN mediator Count Bernadotte, 1948, and the bombing of a British military train high in the Austrian Alps August 15, 1947 might also count for something.
I have yet to see, in the annals of terrorism, the equal of the bombing of the Patria with the resultant deaths of 260 Jewish immigrants - and the offer of collaboration with Nazi Germany was certainly not a good look.
http://www.washington-report.org/archives/May-June_2006/0605014.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
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Jews went to the Middle East specifically because they had no place in Europe.
This is incorrect. Many stayed in Europe, migrated to the U.S. and other countries, not to mention the The Jewish Autonomous Oblast created in Russia in 1934. The assertion that Jews had nowhere to go but Palestine is simply false, as is this:
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Palestinian Territories was mostly empty.
Others may read travel accounts if they wish, I prefer the likes of Ginsberg ( Ahad Ha'am ) an early Zionist who went to Palestine in 1891 specifically to purchase land:
" From abroad, we are accustomed to believe that Eretz Israel is presently almost totally desolate, an uncultivated desert, and that anyone wishing to buy land there can come and buy all he wants. But in truth it is not so. In the entire land, it is hard to find tillable land that is not already tilled; only sandy fields or stony hills, suitable at best for planting trees or vines and, even that after considerable work and expense in clearing and preparing them- only these remain unworked. ... Many of our people who came to buy land have been in Eretz Israel for months, and have toured its length and width, without finding what they seek"
Not to mention the Rabbis sent from Vienna who went to survey the land and cabled back "The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man."
See the population statistics above.
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there are millions of Jews and Palestinians in that area and they will have to live together
At last here is something we can agree on. I consider the single state solution as the only viable option.
pyshnov:
catarin, there was a lot going on with spelling my name incorrectly. The two who stole my PhD research gave my name as Pyshov (something between Pissoff and Pushoff) in the very first paper they published (so excited they were that the title of this stolen paper was "The Morphogenetic Alphabet: Lessons for Simple-Minded Genes"; there were no any "lessons" related to Drosophila genes, but a lot of sadistic joy after my genes were removed from university and they could steel the work even without my knowledge). Then, the thieves followed me from one forum to another, anonymously posting lies and provocation, showing good knowledge of what happened in the university, spelling my name incorrectly and spreading lies about my anti-Semitism and political incorrectness, including hatred for Blacks. Almost all of it is still on the web, and it continues on this forum also. It is unbearable to some that politically correct scientists appear in the documents as filthy criminals. They think that somehow a fault must be found with me, and better still if they succeed in their provocation continuing now for two decades.
About my experience in Russia. I never in my life was much interested in politics, never had any conflict with KGB. (Once they tried to recruit me to report on fellow students, threatening that I will be failed at an exam, but... the professor told me about their visit and, seeing that my whole shirt was soaked in sweat, offered me a good grade without asking a question. I was never approached again.) I don't think I was spied on. Couple of times I was harassed by anti-Semitic individuals and once they fired me from the job. Contrary to what is published in the West, there was no systemic anti-Semitism after Stalin's death (and the case of "Stalin's Jewish doctors"). Moreover, Jews had prominent positions (13% among Members of The Academia of Sciences), and a lot of Jews in the very top positions in KGB; there was simply no great opportunities to go against Jews. I don't think Soviet Russia ever contemplated to drop atomic bombs, and I don't think America did.
I see you have some interest in conspiracies. Drop it, conspiracies are everywhere and they are conducted by much more resourceful people than you and me.
Judging by your previous post, you are between 15 and 18, not yet responsible for what you are saying. You are listening to the wrong people, the fanatics. That's because you never experienced and felt a discrimination against yourself and you think being in a winning mob is a fun. Well, it's only for people who have no self-respect and no individuality that can be respected. Ask yourself what is good for you.
pyshnov:
solly, you wouldn't believe how I admire your knowledge.
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