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[mouseman]

Thanks, Jonesey. Still not interested, because it's no humour, but a fact.
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And was it just anti-Semitism in Old Russia? Or there were certain patterns of nasty behavior by Jews also? Secretary of Rasputin, Aron Simanovich, in his book relates how a terrible betrayal of sugar producer, Rabinovich, who sent during WWI a train with much needed sugar to Germany, was not punished: Tzarina loved jewellery and Simanovich had friends-jewellers; on that particular occasion she received something really good. Jews always felt free from obligations. Dubnov, in History of Jews, tells the story of how Napoleon wanted to give Jews equal rights. But, his aide said: "Your Majesty, but do you know that Jews refuse to serve in your army?".
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I remembered the name of the French author - Roger Peirefitte (might be wrong spelling).

Isn't it hard for you to live, being part of a group of evil, conniving, miserly, money-grubbing, lying, selfish, blood-sucking, big-nosed, Christ-killers? Doesn't it make you just HATE yourself? Doesn't condemning all OTHER Jews make you feel good about yourself?  You know what?  Maybe if you do, those wonderful non-Jews won't hate you as much as they do.  They may even, wonder of wonders, LIKE you a little bit.  Maybe they'll even let you play with them.

I think that it is time to put this thread out of our misery.

[pyshnov]

mouseman:

I think that it is time to put this thread out of our misery.

You ascribe to the others your own thoughts knowing damn well that they don't fit, and then you, of course, feel miserable.

[sciencephd]

The opposition started with sciencephd: conspiracy,

It always does, my dear.

[navydad]

The best way to deal with an obsessive paranoid like pyshnov is to ignore him. Trying to engage him rationally (or irrationally, for that matter) will have no effect, except to feed fuel to his fire. The topic of this thread  could involve some thoughtful discussion, but I am not holding out much hope for that happening.

[pyshnov]

navydad:

The best way to deal with an obsessive paranoid like pyshnov is to ignore him. Trying to engage him rationally (or irrationally, for that matter) will have no effect, except to feed fuel to his fire. The topic of this thread  could involve some thoughtful discussion, but I am not holding out much hope for that happening.

"thoughtful discussion"? Where is this? An "obsessive paranoid" is preventing "thoughtful discussion"? That sounds like a very dishonest pretext, very fishy; it rings the bell, as they say.
Don't "engage" me, just put here something of your own, if you have anything "thoughtful" to post. Just try to ignore me, or you really cannot? Can you talk only in a circle where a "thoughtful discussion" means mutually encouraged lying? We have watched enough of this on television, and that's not what the forums are about. Go on television! Here, you are incapable and helpless, and for this reason - rude.

[catarin]

Israeli history from 2000 BCE

The Jews lived in Israel almost 2000 years before Mohammed was born.  Their peers were the Pharaonic Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Phoenicians, and Philistines, among others.  Most of these civilizations wrote about the Jews.  The Torah is the history of the early Jews, and archaeology research is bearing this out.

The Roman Empire conquered Israel/Judea before the birth of Jesus.  In 70 AD the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and killed (crucified) tens of thousands of Jews who refused to knuckle under.  In 135 CE the Roman Emperor Hadrian forced the Jews out of Jerusalem/Israel (one reason being they refused to worship Roman gods).  For almost two thousand years they were a people with no home.

The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in the 7th century, and again in the 1500s (Ottoman Empire).  The Ottomans lost the Holy Land to the British Mandate in WWI, then the UN took control and planned the Israeli state and the Palestinian state.  What do you do about a people (Arab Muslims) who over 60 years time refuse to make peace and cooperate with the UN and world, then make ludicrus demands and revel in the billions of dollars they have received in welfare?     

[pyshnov]

catarin, your brief summary of history cannot be challenged, except for the last part where you say:
1.

the UN took control

and:
2.

What do you do about a people (Arab Muslims) who over 60 years time refuse to make peace and cooperate with the UN and world

It should have been this:

1. The UN took control quite illegally, because, first - British Mandate was not the annexation of the territory but only a temporary British rule; second - the territory was not British and not a UN territory, therefore UN could not just give that territory to anyone they liked.

2. Your piece of history here should not wander about what to do with the Arabs, because something was already done with the Arabs, and it was this:

Arabs were outraged by the UN unlawful decision and the war between Arabs and Jews immediately ensued. Jews, being helped by others, were much stronger; they killed the Arabs who did not flee and put many in concentration camps. Jews, first, even denied the fact of existence of such people as Palestinian Arabs. For the last 60 years, Arabs have shown wonderful resistance to Jewish occupation, and they have shown wonderful moral resilience refusing to flee their homes and even the concentration camps. The frustration of Jews with such resistance led to the transforming of Jews into savages, torturers and war criminals. Alas.

[felix_unger]

it rings the bell, as they say.

Do they really say that? I've never heard it.

[pyshnov]

felix_unger:

it rings the bell, as they say.

Do they really say that? I've never heard it.

If you never heard them saying this, hear the bell.

This is just for fun.
The serious matters should be the topic.

How can Jewish lobby rely on UN? Is there a guarantee that tomorrow UN will not expel US and pass resolution requiring all Jews to leave Israel, the foreign-born - to their motherland and Israeli-born - to Madagascar? Israel already defied two UN resolutions required it to withdraw from some occupied land. I bet if UN passes some more resolutions against Israel, Jews will declare UN an unlawful organisation that has no jurisdiction over Israel/Palestine.

All these pro-Israeli arguments are so stupid, they remind me of arguments for global warming: if you don't see warming - you must say it's a "climate change"; if you see cooling - you say that low solar activity does not permit you to see warming.

[robert_smithson]

All these pro-Israeli arguments are so stupid, they remind me of arguments for global warming: if you don't see warming - you must say it's a "climate change"; if you see cooling - you say that low solar activity does not permit you to see warming.

The statement above is very non-scientific--it surprises me that a scientist would say something so anecdotal to criticize science that has been done. Surely you know there is actual data involved; are you trying to say that the science is so poor it cannot even be discussed in a scientific context?

[catarin]

I'm not really sure of the UN history with Israel.  Here are some things to consider.

1.  The Muslims took Jerusalem by force.  The Jews took it back by force.

2.  The situation is clouded because of so many Arab/Muslims moving to Israel/Palestine when the  backbreaking work of the Jews and donations from around the world began to turn the land lush and green.  Arabs moved in from all over, many looking for jobs.  When the terrorist Arafat gained leadership of these people, he urged them to have babies, babies, babies, which they did and now is why so many are suffering.  Arafat was the worst leader the Palestinians could have had.  He blew billions of dollars in aid as the Arab/Muslims in Palestine cried for food and shelter and safety.  The louder they cried the better Arafat liked it.  Now there are too many Arab/Muslims for the size of the land available to them.  This isn't the fault of the Jews, the US or the West, and I think the Arabs need to take responsibility for this.

3.  There is a verse in the Quran where Allah tells Muslims that Israel is the land of the Jews.  Chapter 13, 100-104.  Guess Muslims like to pick and choose what to believe...

4.  There is no peace because Muslim terrorists want land, not peace. 

I say build another wall around Gaza.  Fire a rocket into Gaza for every one fired into Israel.  The West and UN should halt all welfare/aid payments.  60 years of this crap is enough.

[pyshnov]

smithson:

Surely you know there is actual data involved; are you trying to say that the science is so poor it cannot even be discussed in a scientific context?

Yes, I am trying to say something like this. Global warming theory is rejected by a multitude of scientists as unscientific, completely unjustified by the data. Thousands of scientists signed the letter rejecting the theory. It is a politicaly-motivated theory designed to give power and money to governments and leftist NGOs and scare the masses into obedience to any measures that would be taken to reduce mythical global warming. I wrote, about year and a half ago in this forum, a couple of notes. Some points I made then, are now being confirmed by climate specialists. (Solar activity, not CO2 is the major factor in the earth climate. CO2 was present in very large concentrations when the earth had enormous mass of flora and fauna, which is in complete contradiction to the end of life on earth projected by global warming theorists. And on, and on.) Why I paid so much attention? This theory is an outrageously dishonest fabrication, a largest science fraud, this time, perpetrated by the politicians.

Industrial pollution must be reduced, it causes disease and it wrongly sensitises the immune system to benign substances such as wheat. It creates havoc in the body. But, the "environmentalists" are partly dishonest, partly duped. The first measure must be to absolutely prohibit the Big Chemistry to enter food. There must immediately be absolute prohibition on genetically modified organisms. Plastics industry must be reduced to 1/100-th or 1/1000-th of it: it mostly makes products appalingly inferior to ones produced thousand years ago, and, it produces poisons and ends in poisonous garbage within a year. The nonaparticles must only exist for purely scientific research, for now. Not only nothing of it is being done, but the leftist cry is to "feed the world". Meanwhile, the recent data show that the crop from GMO is smaller than one from normal plants.

Why I made the reference to such seemingly unrelated things in a thread dealing with Israel? Both items are the problem of people duped by completly fraudulent arguments.

[pyshnov]

catarin, I would agree with you (indeed, why not give Jews a better life, safer and richer), if not for my belief that people have rights, equal rights. I cannot side with communists, fascists or the combination of these two - neo-conservatives, because of that my belief. I cannot side with Zionists for that same reason. While Zionists initially (100 years ago) wanted to settle in Palestine, there was nothing much wrong in this. But, this idea grew into an ugly ideology. At one point, Golda Meir set the standard for Jewish behaviour, she said: "It doesn't matter what goim are saying, what matters is what Jews are doing." This is much quoted in Israel. I don't know if you are able to understand how much pain it causes to one who used to consider Jews a decent people. I don't know where do you take courage to support Zionism and Israel today. Do you know that Israeli agents were stealing children from Jewish families in the Arab countries and were smuggling them to Israel, then, telling their parents to go to Israel if they want to see their children? This is a widely known fact.

How it happened that someone like you can say:

Now there are too many Arab/Muslims for the size of the land available to them.  This isn't the fault of the Jews, the US or the West, and I think the Arabs need to take responsibility for this.

Arabs need to take responsibility for what? Who gave you the right to spell out a calculated basis for genocide?

[catarin]

I used horse sense to figure this out.

[litcrittr82]

I don't know if you are able to understand how much pain it causes to one who used to consider Jews a decent people.

Pyshnov, WTF do you mean by 'a decent people.'  What do you expect to get across with arguments that proceed from a fixed anti-Semitism?  How am I supposed to take your point about ideology driving the science of, in your example, global warming, rather than the other way around, when it's clear that you use the same flawed mode of argumentation?