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[amberjewel]

...when it comes time to search for a job in the US, and vice versa.  Currently I am just entering into my postgraduate degrees.  I will attend the University of Leeds in the UK for a taught MA this fall, but I am looking into potential PhD programs already.  Generally PhD programs in the UK have lacked funding for living expenses, so I decided to check Ireland, since I have some interest in applying for a Fulbright grant to Ireland.  However, given the difficulties in finding placements in English literature in the US, I am wondering if a PhD from an Irish university will benefit me at all when searching for jobs in the US.  Though it is equally possible I will seek employment in Europe, so I wonder if a PhD from the US will be beneficial there.  The main reason for the concern is the difference in requirements I have noted between US PhD programs for English literature and those in the UK and Ireland.  While the US programs require two or more years of courses, oral examinations, one to two language proficiency examinations, and then the final research and dissertation, UK and Irish universities appear to have only a handful of classes, if any, and then the research and thesis.  I imagine it is a difference in requirements of which US universities are aware, and I wonder if that affects the chances of being employed in the US with a PhD from Ireland or the UK.  Though I imagine it is equally possible that in the end the most important factors will simply be publications and teaching experience.  I would appreciate any information or insight.

[baka_janai]

I think the biggest fear on the part of US search committees is that you won't understand "how things work" in US grad programs.  This would be less of an issue if you'd be applying to work at teaching-oriented schools working primarily with undergrads.

I've always felt that US grad programs are more like apprenticeships for the job of being a professor.  Except that well over 50% in the humanities just find themself "cut loose" on completion.  UK-style programs are more on the "gentleman scholar" model where you're just expected to get on with your research with relatively little guidance.

[alliterativerevival]

It's been said before, and will be said again: have a look at where faculty members at the sort of schools you envision yourself working got their degrees, paying particular attention to when they were hired. In general, I think Irish PhD's are unusual in the US, and would suggest that it might be difficult to find employment.

[litcrittr82]

I'm in a comparable position, and posted in the job search forum a little while ago.  I'm in a bit of a different situation because I have three years of grad. school experience in the U.S., but I'll likely be heading off to the UK for my doctorate, and plan to seek employment in the U.S. after grad. school.  Some info. in this thread might be helpful:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,48849.0.html

[amberjewel]

Thank you for your feedback.  How is the job market in the EU?  Specifically Ireland and the UK, but in other countries as well.  I'm considering the possibility of working there as well. 

[verafrance]

How beneficial is a PhD in English literature from an Irish university?

I would think it gets a higher rating than one from a university in Tibet, no offense intended to Tibetian profs (just picked a random far away country)...

Seriously, if you find it difficult to find the job you want right away, another option to strive for is a post-doc, this could allow you to get hands-on, valuable experience with the American university system, even if short-term.

[amberjewel]

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered.  I'm not too familiar with post doctoral work, except that I had a post doctoral fellow as my intro to poetry professor when I was a freshman.  How difficult is it to enter into a post doctoral program?

[baka_janai]

How difficult is it to enter into a post doctoral program?

The post-doc thing varies from field to field.  In the sciences it seems almost compusory  You do your Ph.D., then do a post-doc (or two), then apply for tt jobs.  In the humanities post-docs aren't as common.  Perhaps they are just called "visiting" positions. 

At any rate, these aren't usually "programs" in the same sense as "Ph.D. programs."  In the science post-docs will normally be joining an established research program -- but again this is less common in the humanities.

Coming back to the value of an English Lit degree from an Irish university, I would imagine this is related to the focus.  It might seem odd to do a Ph.D. focused on the analysis of "Southern Lit" at a university outside the US.  But then I suppose you could, following the same logic, argue that no one north of the Mason-Dixon line should study Southern authors. 

I do think it's important to realize that with a non-US degree, publication becomes your dominant qualification.  The Ph.D. is only a ticket to the game -- and even then only for the cheap seats.  The dissertation itself needs to be of a very high standard and early publications in top-tier journals should quickly follow if you hope to land a US job. 

As I've said elsewhere, the UK doctoral experience is about producing scholars -- not professors.  You won't have anything near the practical grounding in the profession of being a professor as "the competition" coming out of US programs.  So you'll have wow search committees with your scholarship.

[verafrance]

How difficult is it to enter into a post doctoral program?

The post-doc thing varies from field to field. 

Yes, it does vary a lot. Research as much all possibilities you can find, and my advice is do it way in advance regarding your time frame. Some application procedures can take a long time, specially  from overseas.

[secretweapon]

There aren't many Irish Phds in US universities, because there aren't that many Irish PhDs, compared to US or UK.  It's a small country.  I do know at least one person with an Irish PhD in an MLA field, who got a good TT job without too much delay. 

Two big things to consider... first, which university?  Trinity is excellent in some subjects, but it's reputation as the 'Harvard of Ireland' is an exagerration.  There's actually great equality amongst the big Irish universities - the NUIs, UCD, TCD, QUB, with Limerick, UU and DCU lagging a bit behind (although it depends on the subject).  However, Americans seem to be impressed by Trinity, the same way that they are really impressed with the Sorbonne.  It's "famous" and therefore must be amazing, right? 

Second, which subject?  English lit, or literature in English?  Not surprisingly, Ireland is very strong in Irish literature and if you want to work on an author with an international reputation like Joyce or Yeats, you're in the right place.  If you do want to work with a big name in Irish lit, though, you'd be smart to find out how many students that person supervises. 

[amberjewel]

To answer some of the questions posed, the program I am considering is a new one called Texts, Contexts and Cultures.  Essentially it's a new program that was implemented between three of the universities in Ireland:  Trinity, UCC and Galway.  It's interdisciplinary in nature, with four courses in the first year and the final three years of the program spent doing research in your chosen field.  So essentially I would be earning a PhD in English literature through research, but I would have the initial interdisciplinary courses as a starting point.  I would be able to study at any of the Irish universities through an exchange program, and they also claim to offer extensive assistance with work placement.  I essentially want to study British literature, though I have also considered focusing on Oscar Wilde.  I find the nature of their program intriguing, but I'm not sure if it will be beneficial.  Though considering the difficulties in entering a PhD in English literature in the US, I almost feel I might as well try one elsewhere if I find it interesting.  How wise it would be, is what I'm trying to determine.  And I have considered Oxford or another British university...  It's not just the difficulties in entering a US program that are daunting me...I've been living abroad for the past two years, and I'm growing disgusted with the US and its lack of health insurance for all and its lack of public transportation...the politics.  But I wonder if I won't end up back in the US in the end anyway, so I wonder if I should just grit my teeth and bear with going back for a PhD program instead of endeavoring to stay abroad.  I appreciate all the comments.  I really need a broader and more knowledgeable perspective for this internal debate I'm having.

[secretweapon]

If you don't want to live in the US right now, don't.  Hey, things might change a bit in the next few years; it's hard to tell.

That program sounds like a 1+3, and that might mollify some US universities that are wary about those who have done research-only PhDs.  With your MA, though, you will have done 2 years of coursework, so I think that will be okay.  If you work on someone like Oscar Wilde, I would imagine that you could both justify your decision to study in Ireland and your ability to teach British Lit classes.

From a quality of living and social perspective, that interuniversity programme will be great fun.  Dublin, Cork and Galway are all fantastic cities and you'll meet lots of people in and out of academia.  You only live once, and it's a great way to live.  Irish and British universities also have great emphasis on research seminars and conferences, so you can have a very full intellectual life.  You should, however, enquire if there is funding available for international, non-EU students - Ireland is very expensive. 

You should also find out whether you will have opportunities to get a bit of teaching experience - crucial for the US job market.  When it comes to the job market, I doubt that you will be rejected out of hand just for having a non-US PhD.  You will be rejected if you don't demonstrate that you understand the US system or if the university can't afford to fly you out. 

[amberjewel]

I appreciate all the feedback and encouragement.  I still intend to apply for PhD programs in the US, but after my utter lack of success this last time around, I have learned to be wary of the results.  And I have no objections to remaining abroad, as I previously stated.  Though as this time I will apply with an MA in progress, perhaps my odds will improve a bit for a US program.  Is the European job market for professors of English literature in about the same state as the US one?

[secretweapon]

Yes.  Right now it is horrendous (everyone seems to be cautious, waiting for RAE results), but it should improve in a year or two, Iwe hope.  It's very normal to have 1-2 years with very little work when you finish a UK Phd.  It's also quite common to do postdocs or 1-2 year jobs first - it is rare to walk straight into a lectureship, namely because a 3-year PhD doesn't give much time to get out the publications you need for a lectureship.

[bubbahotep]

I do think it's important to realize that with a non-US degree, publication becomes your dominant qualification.  The Ph.D. is only a ticket to the game -- and even then only for the cheap seats.  The dissertation itself needs to be of a very high standard and early publications in top-tier journals should quickly follow if you hope to land a US job. 

Well, apart from the unforgivable UK experience gaff ( :) ) thats a great point