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[msparticularity]

I don't feel hopeless or helpless or sad, but yet I'm not looking forward to anything. I don't have any sense of zest. I feel like I'm just marking time.

I'm not positive that this is the depression "talking." It could be a mid-40's existential crisis sort of thing.

This part of your post jumped out at me because it resonated with some of my own experiences.

First, I want to offer a comment on anti-depressants. I am not one of those who condemns them; I think they're vitally important, and I have taken a whole variety of pharmaceuticals when I have needed them. However, I have noticed in myself and my friends that long-term use of some of them seems to lead to the kind of deadening you're describing. I generally find that they have a kind of numbing effect on me, and that's a good thing when I'm so overwhelmed by the pain that what I need most is to feel it a little less. However, once I'm doing a little better, numbness is not a good thing. One of my good friends had much the same experience with Paxil, incidentally, and her psych told her it is incredibly common with that med.

In my  case, under the supervision of my psychiatrist, I transitioned over to St. John's Wort many years ago. In the past few years I've also needed high doses of Omega-3 for my RA, and have experienced the synergy between the two that has been written about. (Incidentally, the Omega-3 effect seems to happen with all SSRIs, not just St. John's Wort.) Again, for me, this combination has proven to be much better than anything I've ever taken before. Now, that said, if I went into a major depressive episode again, you can bet I'd be all over the Cymbalta or whatever!

I have also typically had the kinds of feelings you're describing at the end of the academic year. It went like clockwork, in fact - a week or so of feeling happy and relived to be done with the semester, then down in the dumps. This pattern continued through grad school and while I was teaching in secondary school, until I began my dissertation. Then, I suddenly had something very compelling to work on over the summer, and it began to feel like a luxury to just be able to devote myself to my research. After I finished my diss two years ago, I began doing more and more writing, and especially doing a lot of wide reading and envisioning of future projects. While I've had workaholic tendencies in a very negative way for much of my life - living in constant chaos to avoid my feelings - this new pattern of research and writing just feels different to me. It feels like getting in touch with myself and my genuine interests and talents.

From the things you've said, I gather you're much farther into your career than I am into mine. If that is the case, is your research and professional life beginning to feel less compelling to you? While I understand that you can't do quite the drastic change dept_geek found successful, perhaps you could go in some radically new direction for your work?

I feel for you, and hope you'll be able to find some sense of satisfaction in your life. And I'm not so sure I'd rule out just reading and hanging with the dog!

[ms_turtle]

I'm posting this in the hope that those of you who've battled depression may have some ideas that would be helpful in my situation. I have a 20-year history of major depressive disorder. ... I feel really empty. It's not the anguished emptiness I feel when the depression is bad - it's more like a sense of inertia or 'blankness.' ... I feel like I'm just marking time.

I'm not positive that this is the depression "talking." It could be a mid-40's existential crisis sort of thing. ... My therapist and I are in agreement that we've hit a brick wall in terms of figuring this out and getting through it or over it.

Hi. I'm probably not of much help except to say that we must be cosmic twins. I've been diagnosed with a lot of things and taken more meds than I can remember. The only diagnosis that has fit me is Depressive Personality Disorder. Major depression is a separate and additional struggle for me.

Anyway, this past week was terrible and I was up most of Saturday night thinking/crying that "I don't know what I want. I don't know what changes to make. I just want to be a normal person. I can't stand the idea of doing the same thing day after day after day."

Major life changes aren't in the cards. My husband and I are both scientists. He has a great job (federal scientist with benefits out the wazoo), I have an OK job at the univ, we live in a small, college town with good schools, we have two wonderful kids, and we have no debt except for the house. But inside I range from blackness to nothing. The problem isn't my environment. The truly weird thing is that it completely disappears when I teach. After the buzz wears off (about 10 minutes), it's back to my normal.

I have hobbies coming out of my butt and I tend to work (at my job, cleaning my house, my hobbies, etc.) myself to exhaustion just to keep going.

I cry, I get through the day, and pray for strength to do it again.

[psychdiva]

Ms. Particularity and Ms. Turtle, let's go somewhere with a big box of tissues and cry together.

I discussed the St John's Wort option with my psych and although he was game to try it, we ran into a problem: I have to be on oral contraceptives (for treatment of a severe menstrual disorder) but SJW interferes with the effectiveness of the OCs, so for me, it's ruled out. Argh! I have started Omega-3 caps and am hopeful. Nothing so far other than fishy burps but it's only been a few days. I'm also going to look into whether my light box could be helpful here. [Image of me peering intently into the light, looking for my lost sense of zest.]

I've wondered if the Cymbalta is what's making me feel so inert. I had a numbed, deadened feeling when on Prozac but this is different...I don't feel devoid of feeling, just devoid of interest. I would taper off the Cymbalta to see but as lousy as this empty feeling is, I'm scared of falling into a depressive episode. I did really well on Effexor but it raised my blood pressure to scary levels. Damn, I feel trapped.

I'm not quite mid-career but getting there. I do have a "Is this all there is to life and work?!" kind of thought running through my head. Maybe some of it is inevitable let-down, as I begin to see my life's limits - I never thought I'd be a rock star but somehow, I did imagine that there'd be a few more highs, a bit more exhilaration.

Though I'm off for the summer, my academic life this past year felt a lot like a treadmill. Previous years, I had a sense of satisfaction, and the passage of time across the academic year was comforting, but now, it seems like a lot of repetitive, unstimulating work. Here again, I'm not sure if this is depressive cynicism or a realistic reaction to the limitations of the job and the place. I fantasize about quitting, staying home and just writing...but there's nothing I feel like writing.

I'm thinking in circles.

Thanks for listening - it really helps to pour some of this out. Ms. T, hang in there, you're not alone.

[ms_turtle]

Yes, I am the PsychDiva, but we psych folks are generally as clueless about ourselves as folks in any other field, and I haven't been able to figure this out on my own. Any suggestions? Thank you so much.

Today's (6/23) Non Sequitur http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/

Ms. Particularity and Ms. Turtle, let's go somewhere with a big box of tissues and cry together.

I've wondered if the Cymbalta is what's making me feel so inert...I don't feel devoid of feeling, just devoid of interest. I would taper off the Cymbalta to see but as lousy as this empty feeling is, I'm scared of falling into a depressive episode.

I do have a "Is this all there is to life and work?!" kind of thought running through my head... a lot of repetitive, unstimulating work. ... not sure if this is depressive cynicism or a realistic reaction ... I fantasize about quitting, staying home and just writing...but there's nothing I feel like writing.

Tissues and a hot fudge sundae generally tide me over. Anyway, be wary of coming off Cymbalta (if you try to). It and Paxil were the worst for me to come off of... sheer evil.

I do think that the emptiness is about 2/3 the depression talking and 1/3 being in our 40s. I too fantasize about just quitting and removing a stressor from my life. There have been several times where I'm crying in my office, etc., and just about ready to start packing. Then things like the following happen: a student knocks on the door with an invite to be a distinguished faculty member in a national honor society (this one happened not 15 minutes after I was ready to walk), I get stopped in the hallway by a student (now in his 4th year of med school) who says, "Hi Dr. Turtle, Do you remember me (I did)? I've got to tell you that your class prepared me better for med school than any other class I took here. I still go back to my notes from your class.", another student now a HS teacher "I've got to tell you that your classes were the best I ever took. I'm modelling my teaching after yours," or my relocated Katrina student who said that my class was the only reason she stayed in school.

Ummm, are you sure you don't have me mixed up with someone else? Someone really cool and together? If you knew half of what goes through my head on a regular basis, you'd run screaming in the other direction.

...sigh...I go on.

[prytania3]

Wellbutrin. It is not an SSRI.

[msparticularity]

Yes, I am the PsychDiva, but we psych folks are generally as clueless about ourselves as folks in any other field, and I haven't been able to figure this out on my own. Any suggestions? Thank you so much.

Today's (6/23) Non Sequitur http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/

Ms. Particularity and Ms. Turtle, let's go somewhere with a big box of tissues and cry together.

I've wondered if the Cymbalta is what's making me feel so inert...I don't feel devoid of feeling, just devoid of interest. I would taper off the Cymbalta to see but as lousy as this empty feeling is, I'm scared of falling into a depressive episode.

I do have a "Is this all there is to life and work?!" kind of thought running through my head... a lot of repetitive, unstimulating work. ... not sure if this is depressive cynicism or a realistic reaction ... I fantasize about quitting, staying home and just writing...but there's nothing I feel like writing.

Tissues and a hot fudge sundae generally tide me over. Anyway, be wary of coming off Cymbalta (if you try to). It and Paxil were the worst for me to come off of... sheer evil.

I do think that the emptiness is about 2/3 the depression talking and 1/3 being in our 40s. I too fantasize about just quitting and removing a stressor from my life. There have been several times where I'm crying in my office, etc., and just about ready to start packing. Then things like the following happen: a student knocks on the door with an invite to be a distinguished faculty member in a national honor society (this one happened not 15 minutes after I was ready to walk), I get stopped in the hallway by a student (now in his 4th year of med school) who says, "Hi Dr. Turtle, Do you remember me (I did)? I've got to tell you that your class prepared me better for med school than any other class I took here. I still go back to my notes from your class.", another student now a HS teacher "I've got to tell you that your classes were the best I ever took. I'm modelling my teaching after yours," or my relocated Katrina student who said that my class was the only reason she stayed in school.

Ummm, are you sure you don't have me mixed up with someone else? Someone really cool and together? If you knew half of what goes through my head on a regular basis, you'd run screaming in the other direction.

...sigh...I go on.

On tapering off of the SSRIs - I always had to go on Prozac, because I would inevitably go really, really crazy. Turns out Prozac helps because its half-life is so much longer, your brain has time to adjust to the reduced dosage without going straight into withdrawal symptoms (or something like that). My psych actually had to call and consult with her dad - a really major figure in the field - to figure out how to get me off of stuff, short of checking me into the mental health facility and putting me under.

And I'm definitely game for our little retreat - some tissues and lots of chocolate, for sure. I'm  not so much depressed as all-over-the-place, what with moving. I'm feeling loss and sadness at leaving friends and family here, but I'm also really excited about my new job and our new home, so it sort of balances out.

The only other thing I can think of that might possibly be relevant is that at least part of my problem turned out to be unrecognized and completely untreated anxiety. I only discovered this by accident, too. I was having really horrible restless leg, and my GP put me on a very low dose of klonopin (a benzodiazepene) for a little while to see if it would help. It helped with the sleep a bit, but the even more interesting thing was how much better some other things got - both my diffuse anxiety and some of my over-the-top phobias. I didn't take the klonopin for very long, but just getting some relief from the paralyzing fear made the other stuff - including the depression - more accessible.

Most of all, my big change in my depression came when I started to believe that at least some of what I was feeling wasn't "real" - it was  product of the groove that had developed in my mind, thanks to years of depressive thinking. I didn't begin disregarding my feelings in a wholesale way, but I did begin evaluating them and then (if there really didn't seem to be anything going on) deciding to "act as if" I were a healthy person, instead of following my usual pattern that led me further down into the abyss of the depression. More on that if it's interesting and/or relevant for anyone!

Love and chocolate to all!

[lenniel]

Hi everyone! Getting caught up here...all this advice is great, and I'm not sure if I have anythin of worth to add.  I was diagnosed with depression a number of years ago - in combination with insomnia and alcoholism, that was a good year - and they tried every drug in the book.  Eventually, I had the best reaction to Prozac (which also helped the nuclear, homicidal PMS) and anti-anxiety meds.  Like otheres here, I had wicked withdrawal from a lot of the other stuff, and like PD, I felt like a dead thing a lot of the time.  A few years ago, I took myself off the meds and feel pretty good, but I also made major life changes.

Part of my problem, though, was I was unhappy with my job, choices I had made and persistant neglect of my mental well being.  I am also an alcoholic, and I feel, oddly, very lucky about this.  I have meetings to go to, a support system, and whereever I go, I can go to a meeting and hang with other drunks.  This is very very helpful, and keeps me on track when I am beginning to slide.

The summer blahs is also a big deal, and hobbies, books, and anything that might help is a great idea!  I love the idea of fishy burps and Omega 3 - add some soda to that and you can really have fun. (We're a little juvenile out here)  My fear of idleness and pathology around being useful tends to lead me to do too much when I should probably just kick back. 

Could you just rest and read with the dogs, PD?  Would it put your other work behind?  Sometimes I give myself a deadline of sloth - a day, a week, or something - where I do nothing that involves work, unless I really want to.  I'm great at making everything into work, so I have to bargain with myself quite often.  I find that if I place too many demands on myself, I will trigger a depression or anxiety, and need to back off.  That dead feeling is really awful, and I hope you find ways to get away from it.  I'm not always successful, but am ever hopeful!

Eat ice cream, get rest and I hope everyone else is doing okay?  Allergies getting better?  Are your joints okay, MsP?

[msparticularity]

Are your joints okay, MsP?

Thanks for asking - they're kind of cranky at the moment, which appears to be part of a sort of system-wide flare going on. I'm having killer allergies, and that immune system stimulation, along with the stress of packing and getting ready to move, has triggered low-grade fevers and aching joints too. Oh, boy!

I'm lingering here for a few minutes before I go off to pack some more. My parents are coming over to help me this afternoon so I think we might get through a bunch.

[kissa_mau]

Regarding the Omega-3, get the enteric coated kind. No fish burps.

I'm on an SSRI for an autonomic thing. I've had the least problem with side effects with Lexapro. They keep increasing my dose and I have no idea where they intend to stop. My darling spouse has been on just about everything through the years. I wish he had a better doctor, because his GP just cycled him through things in the most insane way. Going off Effexor was the worst. Lenniel- it sounds like you and my spouse had the same kind of year! He's finally back in meetings after a bad relapse this spring.

Long-term effects of SSRIs is something you definitely don't hear much about.

[lenniel]

Hi all!  MsP, did you do okay today?  How is your migraine, Kissa_Mau?  I have a little one myself and am using all the remedies suggested - next I will try Tiger Balm, as suggested on Psychdiva's excellent home remedy thread.  I feel for your spouse, K_M, and I hope he is going to a lot of meetings and has a good sponsor.  I was lucky to have a good doctor who basically sent me to rehab some years ago and I have been lucky to stay sober for a number of years.  I wouldn't have made it through school, work, or anything without it.  Being the non-drunk spouse in that situation is incredibly hard, and I give you a great many virtual hugs.  I've been the drunk and the spouse, and I must say being the drunk is much easier. Take good care of yourself.  Feel free to vent!

Hope everyone else is doing okay?

[psychdiva]

Hey everyone. Thanks for the kind and helpful posts. I'm sorry for not responding to each one specifically - I plan replies in my head, get obsessional about it, delay, feel like I'll never catch up, get overwhelmed, etc.

I spent the day lounging around with the dogs, reading, napping. Did a few loads of laundry, so I don't feel like a total slug.

Lenniel - I got one of those scalp massagers as a gag birthday gift a few years ago, the ones that look like a big spider made out of bendable metal. Turns out it is pretty fabulous for migraines and tension headaches. They have them at Bed, Bath and Beyond and lots of places online sell them.

MsP - is your joint pain from RA or another autoimmune problem? I use Tylenol Arthritis Formula for the joint pain that comes with my Crohn's flares. Does that work for you?

Pryt - I tried Wellbutrin. Loved the appetite reduction but I ended up with such severe anxiety as a side-effect that I self-medicated with benedryl just to get through the period until it wore off.

MsT - you're right, we are twins. I'll be hiding in my office, ready to quit or just walk away from it all, and then I get an appreciative email from a student and I perk up and tell myself it's all not that bad.

OK, so here's my shopping list for our retreat:
  - chocolate bars
  - rice pudding
  - boxes of tissues
  - fleece quilt for each person

Have I left anything out?

[prytania3]

Pryt - I tried Wellbutrin. Loved the appetite reduction but I ended up with such severe anxiety as a side-effect that I self-medicated with benedryl just to get through the period until it wore off.

The trick with Wellbutrin is you take a little Ativan.

[psychdiva]

Pryt - I tried Wellbutrin. Loved the appetite reduction but I ended up with such severe anxiety as a side-effect that I self-medicated with benedryl just to get through the period until it wore off.

The trick with Wellbutrin is you take a little Ativan.

Ahhh. Makes sense. I don't suppose you could be my psychiatrist?

[contemporary_]

Hey everyone. Thanks for the kind and helpful posts. I'm sorry for not responding to each one specifically - I plan replies in my head, get obsessional about it, delay, feel like I'll never catch up, get overwhelmed, etc.

Don't worry about it.


Excellent vegetarian sources of Omega 3 are flax(oil or ground seed as a condiment.  Do not heat, keep refrigerated) and walnuts.

Wishing everyone easy days and restful nights.

[msparticularity]

MsP - is your joint pain from RA or another autoimmune problem? I use Tylenol Arthritis Formula for the joint pain that comes with my Crohn's flares. Does that work for you?

<snip>

OK, so here's my shopping list for our retreat:
  - chocolate bars
  - rice pudding
  - boxes of tissues
  - fleece quilt for each person

Have I left anything out?

Yeah, my joint pain is actually a mix of RA and osteoarthritis - the product of a really diabolical family legacy. And the combination of heat and stress, with some allergies thrown in, has given me a first-class flare. I'm having some new stuff, including neck pain and numbness in my left shoulder, after a day of packing and lifting boxes.  Right now I'm just trying to keep my head down and survive the next two weeks.

But I totally agree about the rice pudding - MUCH better than chocolate sundaes for me! And I will definitely need to bring the Poodle with me; there's nothing like a lapdog for comfort and sympathy. (And actually, he has a chronic illness too; he has Chronic Renal Failure.)