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[mystictechgal]

I'll admit, I haven't read all 6 pages of the thread.  Maths terrify me.  I fell off the truck back in 5th grade.  I'm a member of the early "new" math generation, and I went to a private lower school where some teachers liked math and taught it the "old" way, some decided to teach it the "new" way, and some didn't like teaching it so it wasn't emphasised.

I did okay in algebra, as long as we were talking theory.  Calculators were banned, and to this day I still sometimes mentally count on my fingers, so arithmetically I'd sometimes fail getting an answer (which was a fail--loic didn't count for points). 

I really liked, and did well at, geometry for some reason now lost to me in the midst of time and maths fear.  While I was otherwise a good good chemestry student that loved the sciences, I lost it when I had a HS instructor that insisted on starting every class with a graded quiz of 10 questions that stretched across the full front of the room blackboard which had to be answered in 5 minutes using a slide rule.  In that entire year I think I might have managed to get one of those damned questions finished before the time was up.  Other than that my understanding of the science was sound, and I absolutely loved biology, but those damned quizzes cost me my grade--and any confidence I had.  I barely passed that class. 

I've avoided taking any maths and sciences since, although at the zoo I teach basic science, including chemestry, biology, geology, and ecology--and do it very well from what I'm told by teachers bringing in their classes, and by other volunteers that have taught the subjects, some professionally, for far longer than I.

My late husband, who was a math whiz, insisted that, based upon what he'd seen of my interests and abilities, I'd enjoy and do quite well in physics--but the entire idea scares the pants off of me.  In order to eventually graduate from any program I have to have my math requirement satisfied.  I've avoided taking it formally for 36 years (oddly, the older I get, and the more I avoid it formally, the more it makes sense to me in an informal setting).  But, I also haven't graduated in 36 years; I sure as heck have enjoyed all the other courses--mostly, from year 1, upper level-- I've taken in that time, though. 

I sometimes think I'm the personification of Zonker from Doonsbury, except for our different motivations for not graduating.  I'm a fairly strong person, but I actually panic and break down crying at the idea of having to take a math class for a grade.

[jacobisrael]

I'll admit, I haven't read all 6 pages of the thread.  Maths terrify me.  I fell off the truck back in 5th grade.  I'm a member of the early "new" math generation, and I went to a private lower school where some teachers liked math and taught it the "old" way, some decided to teach it the "new" way, and some didn't like teaching it so it wasn't emphasised.

I did okay in algebra, as long as we were talking theory.  Calculators were banned, and to this day I still sometimes mentally count on my fingers, so arithmetically I'd sometimes fail getting an answer (which was a fail--loic didn't count for points). 

I really liked, and did well at, geometry for some reason now lost to me in the midst of time and maths fear.  While I was otherwise a good good chemestry student that loved the sciences, I lost it when I had a HS instructor that insisted on starting every class with a graded quiz of 10 questions that stretched across the full front of the room blackboard which had to be answered in 5 minutes using a slide rule.  In that entire year I think I might have managed to get one of those damned questions finished before the time was up.  Other than that my understanding of the science was sound, and I absolutely loved biology, but those damned quizzes cost me my grade--and any confidence I had.  I barely passed that class. 

I've avoided taking any maths and sciences since, although at the zoo I teach basic science, including chemestry, biology, geology, and ecology--and do it very well from what I'm told by teachers bringing in their classes, and by other volunteers that have taught the subjects, some professionally, for far longer than I.

My late husband, who was a math whiz, insisted that, based upon what he'd seen of my interests and abilities, I'd enjoy and do quite well in physics--but the entire idea scares the pants off of me.  In order to eventually graduate from any program I have to have my math requirement satisfied.  I've avoided taking it formally for 36 years (oddly, the older I get, and the more I avoid it formally, the more it makes sense to me in an informal setting).  But, I also haven't graduated in 36 years; I sure as heck have enjoyed all the other courses--mostly, from year 1, upper level-- I've taken in that time, though. 

I sometimes think I'm the personification of Zonker from Doonsbury, except for our different motivations for not graduating.  I'm a fairly strong person, but I actually panic and break down crying at the idea of having to take a math class for a grade.

95% of Japanesse, Korean, and Chinese students, and 65% of German students, graduate from high school after having *passed* calculus, compared to less than 5% of ours who take (not necessarily pass) calculus or "pre-calculus".

At that rate, how long can we expect to be referred to as a "technological society"?

[cc_alan]

95% of Japanesse, Korean, and Chinese students, and 65% of German students, graduate from high school after having *passed* calculus, compared to less than 5% of ours who take (not necessarily pass) calculus or "pre-calculus".

At that rate, how long can we expect to be referred to as a "technological society"?

Hang on... I'm texting you my response...

Alan

[daniel_von_flanagan]

DNFTT - DvF

[jacobisrael]

95% of Japanese, Korean, and Chinese students, and 65% of German students, graduate from high school after having *passed* calculus, compared to less than 5% of ours who take (not necessarily pass) calculus or "pre-calculus".

At that rate, how long can we expect to be referred to as a "technological society"?

Hang on... I'm texting you my response...

Alan

This is about how I summarize our position in the world now:


TIMSS shows that 12th graders, whose scores are very different from
8th graders in both directions (up for most countries, VERY much down
for the US), Norwegian boys scored 2 standard deviations higher than
Swiss boys (589 vs. 519).  But Swiss boys scored 2 standard deviations
higher than Swiss girls (519 vs. 444).  And Swiss girls scored another
standard deviation higher than American girls (444 vs. 393), for a
total of 5 standard deviations of separation between American girls
and Norwegian boys.

SAT scores for 12th graders show that boys in Catholic states score
almost two standard deviations lower than boys in Protestant states.
And girls in Catholic states score another two standard deviations
lower than boys in Catholic states, for a total of 4 standard
deviations of separation between Protestant boys and Catholic girls.
They also show that two thirds of those who score over 600 in SAT Math
are boys and only one third girls.

Even though the GRE (Graduate Record Examination) is not a
representative cross-section of the American population, as it's taken
mostly by college graduates hoping to go to graduate school and thus
represents a small, elite crowd, it still confirms the phenomena
closely enough.  Not only does it show that the standard deviation for
males of every race in every GRE subject is higher than for females of
those respective races and topics, but it too shows that the gender
gap for Whites and Hispanics is two thirds of a standard deviation,
hardly a "statistically insignificant" difference as the news media
expounds.  Even the smaller standard deviations of .6 for "other"
races, .59 for Mexicans, .56 for Asians, .5 for Puerto Ricans, .47 for
Indians, and .4 for Blacks can hardly be characterized as
"statistically insignificant".

NAEP also confirms the phenomena, plus provides the additional insight
that Blacks score another 5-9 standard deviations lower than Whites,
and that Blacks in the District of Columbia have an IQ which is 4 IQ
points lover than the average for American Blacks, another half of a
standard deviation.

While egalitarians delight in proclaiming that the gender gap in NAEP
math decreased from 7 points to only 3 points and the White/Black race
gap decreased from 38 points to only 28 points just in the last three
decades, the most casual observation of the data will prove to you
otherwise.  Is it really possible that our education system managed to
alter God's Design by narrowing race and gender gaps which have
existed for millennia--in only a few short decades?  No.  Is it
possible that, given such huge gender and race gaps in other
standardized tests, that NAEP managed to produce a test which
illustrates no gender and lower race gaps?  No.  What did happen is
the way the standard deviation was changed in the reporting of the
data.  The most optimistic assessment of how this standard deviation
was changed shows that this supposed decrease in the race gap from 38
to 28 points was actually an increase in the standard deviation from
5.4 to 9.3.  Is that possible? Could this dumbing down of America as
reflected in the 135 SAT point decrease just in the last four decades
and our scoring dead last in 17 of 34 TIMSS subjects have resulted in
the dumbing down of Blacks even more?

That's actually not impossible, because the experts who've manipulated
this test data have managed to remove it from our public consciousness
and from all political debate.

Not every step along the way is necessarily cumulative, but it's also
not impossible that the total number of standard deviations of
separation between American black females in DC and boys in Norway is
a total of 14 to 18.5 standard deviations.

[conjugate]

Not every step along the way is necessarily cumulative, but it's also
not impossible that the total number of standard deviations of
separation between American black females in DC and boys in Norway is
a total of 14 to 18.5 standard deviations.

It is if we're assuming anything even remotely like a normal distribution.  Getting outside of three standard deviations is very unlikely (three-tenths of a percent); getting outside of 10 or 12 is a miracle of Biblical proportions.

[jacobisrael]

Not every step along the way is necessarily cumulative, but it's also
not impossible that the total number of standard deviations of
separation between American black females in DC and boys in Norway is
a total of 14 to 18.5 standard deviations.

It is if we're assuming anything even remotely like a normal distribution.  Getting outside of three standard deviations is very unlikely (three-tenths of a percent); getting outside of 10 or 12 is a miracle of Biblical proportions.

True, especially when comparing different types of tests with different standard deviations, and when you don't even know what the standard deviation is for some tests and have to guess.  The open nature of TIMSS is what makes it so valuable compared to, say, NAEP.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

You're not considering trends and cohorts when reading the surveys.  In 2003 Norway's 8th graders were ahead of their US counterparts, now they are behind; the US students gained 11 points in that period.  Some of this might be noise, but this most likely reflects the greatly improved K-12 mathematics standards that have recently been implemented in many states (see Fordham Foundation reports, especially on the California curriculum).  The 12 graders in 2007 were the 8th graders from 2003.  There is every reason to believe that the 2011 figures will show the US ahead of Norway (especially since the out-of-control cost-of-living in Norway is hurting their per-pupil expenditures in real Kroner).

As for performance differences by race in the US, I would guess that the average African-American at New Trier High has better math scores than the average white student at Henry Ford High in Detroit. - DvF

[mystictechgal]

Is it really possible that our education system managed to
alter God's Design by narrowing race and gender gaps which have
existed for millennia--in only a few short decades?

God has an education system design and s/he has gender/race preferences?  Who knew?  Not me. 

I may be a bit math phobic, but I'm not stupid.  I understand statistics, and I understand picking and choosing numbers that fit whatever mold you'd like them to fit.  Not that I read much of your post following the sentance I quoted.  You may be free to peddle your beliefs wherever you'd like to, but, in the future, please refrain from quoting me in any way whatsoever, thank you very much. 

[jacobisrael]

You're not considering trends and cohorts when reading the surveys.  In 2003 Norway's 8th graders were ahead of their US counterparts, now they are behind; the US students gained 11 points in that period.  Some of this might be noise, but this most likely reflects the greatly improved K-12 mathematics standards that have recently been implemented in many states (see Fordham Foundation reports, especially on the California curriculum).  The 12 graders in 2007 were the 8th graders from 2003.  There is every reason to believe that the 2011 figures will show the US ahead of Norway (especially since the out-of-control cost-of-living in Norway is hurting their per-pupil expenditures in real Kroner).

As for performance differences by race in the US, I would guess that the average African-American at New Trier High has better math scores than the average white student at Henry Ford High in Detroit. - DvF

Good points.

It's what happens to our scores between 8th and 12th grade which is the question, though.  How much will an 11 point gain at the 8th grade level (even if it's real and not noise, as you suggest) compensate for the drop in scores between 8th and 12th grade by US girls of 112 points and boys of 58 points?  Especially when at the same time, in Norway, scores for girls increased 22 points and boys 84 points?

On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, RichAsianKid <richasian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> With bated breath, the world awaited for close to a year for the
> release of the latest benchmarkTIMSSstudy from 2007 which involved
> more than 60 participant countries and 425,000 students from round the
> globe. At that sample size,TIMSS2007 is the largest study of student
> math and science achievement in the world. And the results were
> finally just released couple days ago.
>
> You can read the details below, but as usual, average scores way way
> *underestimate* real differences between countries. So let
> RichAsianKid post just one additional bit of data here to clarify what
> he means:
>
> (1) First, math achievement
>
>      http://i36.tinypic.com/28b5uzp.jpg
>
> Wow! some Asian country countries have kids where upwards of 40% have
> reached the advanced level - while many countries only have single
> digits, sometimes 1 or 2 %, and many countries have zero percent. No
> much of a right-end of the bell curve is there? Now, what does
> advanced level mean in math (You can read it on your own and save me
> some typing....)
>
>      http://i36.tinypic.com/2up8zlj.jpg
>
> (2) Now we go to science achievement
>
>      http://i38.tinypic.com/jqhu2r.jpg
>
> Here the results are slightly closer, but still grossly
> disproportionate. And what does "advanced" mean in science?
>
>      http://i33.tinypic.com/jj1z49.jpg
>
> (3) And finally, don't forget this. The so-called g-factor, i.e.
> intelligence, correlates at over 0.90 level with the previousTIMSS
> results (1995, 1999, 2003) at the national level, as shown.
>
>      http://i26.tinypic.com/znanh1.jpg
>
> Yup.
>
> Yet the latest proof that human groups do not achieve equally.
>
> * * * Featured Article * * *
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081210171906.htm
>
> Asian Students Top Latest Global Math, Science Study
>
> ScienceDaily (Dec. 11, 2008) — Students from Asian countries were top
> performers in math and science at both the fourth and eighth grade
> levels, according to the most recent reports of the Trends in
> International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS), released by the
> study's directors Michael O. Martin and Ina V.S. Mullis of Boston
> College.
>
> In mathematics, at the fourth grade level, Hong Kong SAR and Singapore
> were the top performing countries, followed by Chinese Taipei and
> Japan. Kazakhstan, the Russian Federation, England, Latvia, and the
> Netherlands also performed very well. In mathematics achievement at
> the eighth grade, Chinese Taipei, Korea, and Singapore were followed
> by Hong Kong SAR and Japan. There was a substantial gap in average
> mathematics achievement between the five Asian countries and the next
> group of four similarly performing countries, including Hungary,
> England, the Russian Federation, and the United States.
>
> In science, students from Singapore and Chinese Taipei were top
> performers at both grade levels. In science achievement at the fourth
> grade, Singapore was the top performing country, followed by Chinese
> Taipei and Hong Kong SAR. Japan, the Russian Federation, Latvia,
> England, the United States, Hungary, Italy, and Kazakhstan also
> performed very well. At the eighth grade in science, Singapore and
> Chinese Taipei again had the highest average achievement, followed by
> Japan and Korea. England, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Hong
> Kong SAR, and the Russian Federation also performed well. Countries
> and scores are listed below.
>
> TIMSSis one of the world's most influential global assessments of
> student achievement in math and science. With more than 60
> participants and 425,000 students assessed,TIMSS2007 also is the
> largest study of student math and science achievement in the world.
> Each country sampled approximately 4,000 students in 150 schools.
>
> TheTIMSS2007 report also provides data at the fourth and eighth
> grades for those countries that also participated inTIMSS1995, 1999
> and 2003.
>
> "One of the great strengths ofTIMSSis the ability to monitor
> progress in educational improvement over time," saidTIMSSDirectors
> Michael O. Martin and Ina V.S. Mullis of Boston College. "Such trend
> information is crucial in helping policy makers understand the impact
> of decisions about investment in education, curricular reform, and
> initiatives to improve instruction."
>
> As with previousTIMSSreports,TIMSS2007 data provide invaluable
> international benchmarks that can be used to help define world-class
> performance in mathematics and science at the middle or lower-
> secondary school level. Beyond comparisons in mathematics and science
> test scores, they said, the reports provide a wealth of information on
> educational policies and practices around the world, as well as on
> gender performance, home environment, curriculum and instructional
> approaches and teacher preparation in math and science.
>
> AboutTIMSS
>
> TIMSS, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, is
> the largest assessment of international student achievement in the
> world and was the first to provide data about trends in math and
> science achievement over time.
>
> TIMSSis a project of the International Association for the Evaluation
> of Educational Achievement (IEA) headquartered in Amsterdam, and is
> directed by theTIMSS& PIRLS International Study Center at Boston
> College in collaboration with a worldwide network of organizations and
> representatives from the participating countries.
>
> TIMSS2007 is the fourth in a continuing cycle of international
> mathematics and science assessments conducted every four years.TIMSS
> assesses achievement in countries around the world and collects a rich
> array of information about the educational contexts for learning
> mathematics and science.
>
> TheTIMSS2007 report involved more than 60 participants: it contains
> science results for 37 countries and 7 benchmarking participants at
> the fourth grade and for 50 countries and 7 benchmarking participants
> at the eighth grade. Each country sampled approximately 4,000 students
> in 150 schools. Trend data are provided at the fourth and eighth
> grades for those countries that also participated in 1995, 1999, and
> 2003.
>
> To inform educational policy in the participating countries,TIMSS
> also routinely collects extensive background information that
> addresses concerns about the quantity, quality and content of
> instruction.TIMSS2007 offers detailed information about mathematics
> and science curriculum coverage and implementation, as well as teacher
> preparation, resource availability and the use of technology.
>
> TIMSS2007 Participants
>
> Participating countries: Algeria, Armenia, Australia, Austria,
> Bahrain, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Bulgaria, Chinese Taipei,
> Colombia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, El Salvador,
> England, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Hong Kong, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran,
> Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Republic of Kuwait,
> Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Malaysia, Malta, Mongolia, Morocco,
> Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Palestinian National
> Authority, Qatar, Romania, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Scotland,
> Serbia, Singapore, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Sweden, Syrian Arab
> Republic, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, United States, Yemen.
> Benchmarking entities include the provinces of Alberta, British
> Columbia, Ontario and Quebec in Canada; Dubai (United Arab Emirates);
> Basque Country in Spain, and Massachusetts and Minnesota in the United
> States.
>
> The fullTIMSS2007 reports are available on-line attimss.bc.eduTIMSS2007 Data Exhibits Summarizing Principal Achievement Results
> (Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study)
>
> Mathematics Achievement at the 4th Grade
>
> Country Average Scale Score (TIMSSScale Average 500)
>
>    1. Hong Kong SAR 607
>    2. Singapore 599
>    3. Chinese Taipei 576
>    4. Japan 568
>    5. Kazakhstan 549
>    6. Russian Federation 544
>    7. England 541
>    8. Latvia 537
>    9. Netherlands 535
>   10. Lithuania 530
>   11. United States 529
>   12. Germany 525
>   13. Denmark 523
>   14. Australia 516
>   15. Hungary 510
>   16. Italy 507
>   17. Austria 505
>   18. Sweden 503
>   19. Slovenia 502
>   20. Armenia 500
>   21. Slovak Republic 496
>   22. Scotland 494
>   23. New Zealand 492
>   24. Czech Republic 486
>   25. Norway 473
>   26. Ukraine 469
>   27. Georgia 438
>   28. Iran, Islamic Rep. of 402
>   29. Algeria 378
>   30. Colombia 355
>   31. Morocco 341
>   32. El Salvador 330
>   33. Tunisia 327
>   34. Kuwait 316
>   35. Qatar 296
>   36. Yemen 224
>   37. Benchmarking Participants
>   38. Massachusetts, US 572
>   39. Minnesota, US 554
>   40. Quebec, Canada 519
>   41. Ontario, Canada 512
>   42. Alberta, Canada 505
>   43. British Columbia, Canada 505
>   44. Dubai, UAE 444
>
> Science Achievement at the 4th Grade
>
> Country Average Scale Score (TIMSSScale Average 500)
>
>    1. Singapore 587
>    2. Chinese Taipei 557
>    3. Hong Kong SAR 554
>    4. Japan 548
>    5. Russian Federation 546
>    6. Latvia 542
>    7. England 542
>    8. United States 539
>    9. Hungary 536
>   10. Italy 535
>   11. Kazakhstan 533
>   12. Germany 528
>   13. Australia 527
>   14. Slovak Republic 526
>   15. Austria 526
>   16. Sweden 525
>   17. Netherlands 523
>   18. Slovenia 518
>   19. Denmark 517
>   20. Czech Republic 515
>   21. Lithuania 514
>   22. New Zealand 504
>   23. Scotland 500
>   24. Armenia 484
>   25. Norway 477
>   26. Ukraine 474
>   27. Iran, Islamic Rep. of 436
>   28. Georgia 418
>   29. Colombia 400
>   30. El Salvador 390
>   31. Algeria 354
>   32. Kuwait 348
>   33. Tunisia 318
>   34. Morocco 297
>   35. Qatar 294
>   36. Yemen 197
>
> Benchmarking Participants
>
>    1. Massachusetts, US 571
>    2. Minnesota, US 551
>    3. Alberta, Canada 543
>    4. British Columbia, Canada 537
>    5. Ontario, Canada 536
>    6. Quebec, Canada 517
>    7. Dubai, UAE 460
>
> Mathematics Achievement at the 8th Grade
>
> Country Average Scale Score (TIMSSScale Average 500)
>
>    1. Chinese Taipei 598
>    2. Korea, Rep. of 597
>    3. Singapore 593
>    4. Hong Kong SAR 572
>    5. Japan 570
>    6. Hungary 517
>    7. England 513
>    8. Russian Federation 512
>    9. United States 508
>   10. Lithuania 506
>   11. Czech Republic 504
>   12. Slovenia 501
>   13. Armenia 499
>   14. Australia 496
>   15. Sweden 491
>   16. Malta 488
>   17. Scotland 487
>   18. Serbia 486
>   19. Italy 480
>   20. Malaysia 474
>   21. Norway 469
>   22. Cyprus 465
>   23. Bulgaria 464
>   24. Israel 463
>   25. Ukraine 462
>   26. Romania 461
>   27. Bosnia and Herzegovina 456
>   28. Lebanon 449
>   29. Thailand 441
>   30. Turkey 432
>   31. Jordan 427
>   32. Tunisia 420
>   33. Georgia 410
>   34. Iran, Islamic Rep. of 403
>   35. Bahrain 398
>   36. Indonesia 397
>   37. Syrian Arab Republic 395
>   38. Egypt 391
>   39. Algeria 387
>   40. Colombia 380
>   41. Oman 372
>   42. Palestinian Nat'l Auth. 367
>   43. Botswana 364
>   44. Kuwait 354
>   45. El Salvador 340
>   46. Saudi Arabia 329
>   47. Ghana 309
>   48. Qatar 307
>   49. Morocco 381
>
> Benchmarking Participants
>
>    1. Massachusetts, US 547
>    2. Minnesota, US 532
>    3. Quebec, Canada 528
>    4. Ontario, Canada 517
>    5. British Columbia, Canada 509
>    6. Basque Country, Spain 499
>    7. Dubai, UAE 461
>
> Science Achievement at the 8th Grade
>
> Country Average Scale Score (TIMSSScale Average 500)
>
>    1. Singapore 567
>    2. Chinese Taipei 561
>    3. Japan 554
>    4. Korea, Rep. of 553
>    5. England 542
>    6. Hungary 539
>    7. Czech Republic 539
>    8. Slovenia 538
>    9. Hong Kong SAR 530
>   10. Russian Federation 530
>   11. United States 520
>   12. Lithuania 519
>   13. Australia 515
>   14. Sweden 511
>   15. Scotland 496
>   16. Italy 495
>   17. Armenia 488
>   18. Norway 487
>   19. Ukraine 485
>   20. Jordan 482
>   21. Malaysia 471
>   22. Thailand 471
>   23. Serbia 470
>   24. Bulgaria 470
>   25. Israel 468
>   26. Bahrain 467
>   27. Bosnia and Herzegovina 466
>   28. Romania 462
>   29. Iran, Islamic Rep. of 459
>   30. Malta 457
>   31. Turkey 454
>   32. Syrian Arab Republic 452
>   33. Cyprus 452
>   34. Tunisia 445
>   35. Indonesia 427
>   36. Oman 423
>   37. Georgia 421
>   38. Kuwait 418
>   39. Colombia 417
>   40. Lebanon 414
>   41. Egypt 408
>   42. Algeria 408
>   43. Palestinian Nat'l Auth. 404
>   44. Saudi Arabia 403
>   45. El Salvador 387
>   46. Botswana 355
>   47. Qatar 319
>   48. Ghana 303
>   49. Morocco 402
>
> Benchmarking Participants
>
>    1. Massachusetts, US 556
>    2. Minnesota, US 539
>    3. Ontario, Canada 526
>    4. British Columbia, Canada 526
>    5. Quebec, Canada 507
>    6. Basque Country, Spain 498
>    7. Dubai, UAE 489
 

[daniel_von_flanagan]

You still don't get it.  There was no drop in US scores between 8th and 12th grade; there was a difference in cohort.

I find this kind of hysterical metrology uninteresting and counterproductive.  It leads some people to imagine there's a significant racial or sexual component to mathematical ability when that's not what the data really shows, and merely serves to fuel baser worldviews. More importantly, it doesn't suggest any constructive policy other than institutional hand-wringing. It makes sense to ask if (for example) increasing the dollars spent per student increases mathematics achievement, since a positive answer would support a policy of increased STEM funding in schools; it makes no sense to ask if increasing the Norwegian fraction of a student's DNA increases their achievement, as there is nothing we can do if the answer is "yes". - DvF

[kiana]

We could all run out and make babies with Norwegians to improve the % Norwegian in the general population!

(:

[christianp]

As for performance differences by race in the US, I would guess that the average African-American at New Trier High has better math scores than the average white student at Henry Ford High in Detroit. - DvF

Why would you believe that?

Do you have some kind of evidence to support that belief?

[christianp]

You still don't get it.  There was no drop in US scores between 8th and 12th grade; there was a difference in cohort.

I find this kind of hysterical metrology uninteresting and counterproductive.  It leads some people to imagine there's a significant racial or sexual component to mathematical ability when that's not what the data really shows, and merely serves to fuel baser worldviews. More importantly, it doesn't suggest any constructive policy other than institutional hand-wringing. It makes sense to ask if (for example) increasing the dollars spent per student increases mathematics achievement, since a positive answer would support a policy of increased STEM funding in schools; it makes no sense to ask if increasing the Norwegian fraction of a student's DNA increases their achievement, as there is nothing we can do if the answer is "yes". - DvF

Could you explain what you mean by that?

[concerned_parent]

 

I am assuming your college does not have basic skills testing for incoming students and if so, you will continue to have this problem. The basic skills testing is used for math and English placement, and includes proficiency in Algebra.
It is disheartening but a reality that students have to learn Algebra in college.