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Author Topic: Plagiarism-Detection Tool  (Read 3053 times)
pyshnov
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« on: April 01, 2008, 09:14:14 AM »

Re: "Federal Judge Rules That Plagiarism-Detection Tool Does Not Violate Students' Copyrights"

So much has been discussed about a simple thing that has simple and just solution. My view:
Teachers have right to check students' papers in any way they find needed to allow detection of plagiarism. However, it is wrong to present data from the software tools as a proof of plagiarism. The proof of plagiarism must be formulated by a teacher who compares student's paper with something he found with the help of some tool. I don't know how this works in practice, but obviously there is something wrong with the practice if questions about it even arise. And I don't understand why so much money is involved; you have Google for free.
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prokraz
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 10:23:01 AM »

Yes, Google is free and a great resource, but turnitin.com, for example, saves me the many hours it used to take tracking down the multiple sources students often plagiarized from.
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mountain_ivy
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 03:35:33 PM »

Such a complicated issue....sigh......  I once thought that I could design assignments that made it impossible to plagiarize, but students, often those not school-saavy, simply cut/pasted, not truly realizing that's cheating.

And, our colleagues with many students may not have the opportunity to work closely with each student, thereby becoming familiar with the student's capability.

It might be that we need to rethink the purpose of research assignments, especially longer pieces.

As someone who absolutely loves research and writing long, impossibly convoluted "think" pieces, I'm no longer certain of their usefulness for most of our students.
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mended_drum
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2008, 05:29:23 PM »

R I don't know how this works in practice, but obviously there is something wrong with the practice if questions about it even arise.

I don't understand the logic of this sentence.
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pyshnov
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2008, 10:59:05 PM »

grinnellns,
I simply mean that it should not matter how you catch a plagiarised piece, and don't understand why some methods like using Google can be criticized.
I wrote long time ago here that assignments properly conceived by a teacher should not have ready answers on Internet. But, if teachers plagiarise their own assignments year after year, that finds answers on the Internet very fast.

ab1997by,
"...to work closely with each student..." remains the only choice now, and it was always the best way. "Closely" should mean talking and discussing, and immediately giving a grade for that talking, and explaining immediately why this grade and not other grade. A number of such small discussions can replace all the assignments. Considering time spent on marking assignments, etc., etc. ...
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baka_janai
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2008, 10:28:44 AM »

Such a complicated issue....sigh......  I once thought that I could design assignments that made it impossible to plagiarize, but students, often those not school-saavy, simply cut/pasted, not truly realizing that's cheating.

And, our colleagues with many students may not have the opportunity to work closely with each student, thereby becoming familiar with the student's capability.

It might be that we need to rethink the purpose of research assignments, especially longer pieces.

As someone who absolutely loves research and writing long, impossibly convoluted "think" pieces, I'm no longer certain of their usefulness for most of our students.

This post is right on in almost every way.  Yes, we need to rethink the rationale behind "research papers" as a primary tool in tertiary education.  In the information age (and beyond), it might well be an outdated method. 

And, yes, lumping a range of different problems under the single term "plagiarism" (often with a "zero tolerance" policy) only serves to hide the actual problems.  The only difference between many first year "plagiarists" and academics is that academics are better at it and know the rules of the game. 
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mended_drum
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 02:03:46 PM »

grinnellns,
I simply mean that it should not matter how you catch a plagiarised piece, and don't understand why some methods like using Google can be criticized.
I wrote long time ago here that assignments properly conceived by a teacher should not have ready answers on Internet. But, if teachers plagiarise their own assignments year after year, that finds answers on the Internet very fast.


Okay, thanks.  The sentence seemed very confusing. 

I'm in favor of researched writing assignments, though I design them for freshmen and sophomores in such a way as to teach the use of one specific kind of source at a time.  I think that finding, reading and understanding, and then making use of information is an important skill.  For upper-level students, I guide them toward participating in the on-going conversation about a work, which involves reading a number of secondary sources on a particular issue so that the student gets a glimmer of the issues involved.  I do have colleagues who have given up completely:  using in-class writing exclusively or only permitting students to use sources chosen for them.  I feel that my classes are small enough, however, that I don't need to take that course. 

Class discussion is particularly enhanced when my students are reading secondary sources in preparation for writing papers; sometimes it produces delightful results, such as the group who tried to persuade a colleague of the narrative similarities between Chaucer and the Black Arts Movement (I'm not really convinced, but that kind of intellectual exploration is exactly what we'd like to see our undergraduates embrace). 

I find turnitin.com and google, along with several other tools, useful in preventing certain kinds of plagiarism (basically, buying or borrowing papers, or cutting-and-pasting from the internet).  As long as you understand how the tools work and use them with discretion, they can be quite valuable.
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baka_janai
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 07:31:33 PM »

I think that finding, reading and understanding, and then making use of information is an important skill. 

I agree entirely.  However, nothing in that statement argues for the need for term papers.  Term papers are first and foremost about writing skills (in a broader compositional/organizational sense).  This may well be a valuable goal for it's own sake.  It may also be a task that have general cognitive-developmental benefits.  However, finding information and rearranging it in term paper format is an artificial task at best and not necessarily the best way to synthesize information.

What I'm saying is that I feel that a lot of the hair-pulling here on CHE over "plagiarism" (and I put that in scare quotes because I think the word is horrible overused) is the result of teachers who are pushing particular formats for the presentation of learning.  And then they complain about having to grade them.  It's time for a re-evaluation of the role of traditional "term paper" style writing in university education.
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