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Author Topic: Investigating rejections  (Read 5880 times)
octagonal
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« on: March 23, 2008, 08:22:52 PM »

Greetings and thanks in advance for any insight.

I applied to 4 programs this year and have been rejected by 3 so far, and have sufficient reason to believe the 4th is on its way in the mail as we speak.

When I applied I was told by all involved that I wasn't just a good candidate, I was almost a shoe-in. Great grades, writing sample, GREs, and I can only assume recs, based on all parties who wrote on my behalf being big champions of my future in academia.

So needless to say, even though I'm applying in a highly competitive humanities field that accepts very few students each year, I am surprised by the clean sweep of rejections.

My question: is there an appropriate and tactful way to investigate these rejections? When and how should I do so?

I applied to my alma mater, where I had professors writing on my behalf. There is one who I would feel comfortable asking who I expect would give me a straight answer. I'm not looking to be told that I was absolutely qualified but so were many other applicants, which I already know is true. I'm curious as to why I didn't make the cut.

I don't want to waste anyone's time. I just want to know because I need to decide if I should consider applying again in the future or if there's something about my application that I can't change that will result in further rejections.

I'm of course a bit hurt pride wise, but I have a great job and a good future doing other things. It's always difficult when you're led to believe that you're going to get in somewhere only to be rejected everywhere though.
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sciencephd
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 08:31:32 PM »

I applied to my alma mater, where I had professors writing on my behalf. There is one who I would feel comfortable asking who I expect would give me a straight answer. I'm not looking to be told that I was absolutely qualified but so were many other applicants, which I already know is true. I'm curious as to why I didn't make the cut.

I can't see how it would hurt to ask this one person at your alma mater.

Quote
I'm of course a bit hurt pride wise, but I have a great job and a good future doing other things.

From what you read here about jobs in the humanities, they may have done you a great favor, especially if you have a good job and enjoy it.
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 08:32:35 PM »

I'm sorry to hear about your lack of success.  This must be a frustrating time -- all questions and no answers.  Some points:

- Committees that did not accept your application have no incentive to disclose information and every incentive not to disclose.  Talking to a rejected applicant is not fun.  At worst, loose comments about the evaluation process can invite litigation by the spurned applicant.  Thus I doubt you'll get much information other than "the pool was very good, it was a really tough choice, blah blah".

- As you remark, the market is very tight for these positions.  If the application ratio is 50:1, can you honestly say that your application is superior than 49 other qualified applicants?  If not, there may be stronger candidates about.

- Evaluations of strength of candidacy are usually optimistic.  Folks want to support you so they tell you nice things.  Most are true, but they lack the critical eye that an application committee will use.

- There may be reasons beyond your control.  The programs want X candidate and you are or offer Y.  Y is your attribute.  They just don't want Y.  Not much you can do.

- I'd find someone who you can trust that is objective that can look over your application and see if any problems arise.  This may have just been a really strong year for applications.

Hope this helps,

Untenured






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scheherazade
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 08:37:59 PM »

When I was a rejected candidate to a couple programs, I politely asked why so I could bolster any deficiencies.  I was lucky in that both programs gave me detailed, helpful, and downright pleasant responses.  It certainly can't hurt you.  Just don't be surprised or take it personally if you don't get a response.  FWIW, I did it through email.
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 08:40:37 PM »

Interesting information.  As a former SCM, I was instructed to offer no information other than "we selected the candidate who best fit the criteria" to any applicant who inquired.  That's it.

Untenured
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pink_
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 09:04:11 PM »

I'm in an MLA field, and when I am asked about applying to graduate school, I advise my students to apply to between 10 and 15 programs.  In my field, the top programs get 250-300 apps for 15 or so spots.  There are usually 50 very strong applications, so it comes down to trying to put together a diverse group of students who will compliment each other as well as those already in the program.

Most people I know who applied widely (strong applicants) were happy to get into 2 or 3 programs.  Given that you only applied to 4 programs, you could be a very competitive applicant who just didn't have numbers on your side.

I would also ask the professor at your alma mater.
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contemporary_
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 09:18:47 PM »

My intuition says no one was interested in (supervising) the work you discussed in your SOP.
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pikachu
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 09:55:29 PM »

There is no much mystery here. You should have applied to a minimum of 15 programs that also included some lower ranked programs (say top 30 or so) and were also possibly in diverse geographical locations, to have a fighting chance to get in (and assuming that your application is very good). If you applied to only the four top programs in the Northeast (for example), you gambled and you lost.
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octagonal
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 10:18:55 PM »

Thanks for the thoughtful replies folks, I appreciate it.
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stangoldsmith
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 12:05:26 AM »

I applied to one program (due to physical location) and didn't get in, I went in to the office and talked to a couple of professors, and most importantly talked to the grad student administrative assistants (the people who put together the apps and sit in on the choosing process at this university) - these were the key people who helped me focus my application and I got in during my second round, never underestimate the admins!

Second round I applied to 9 schools by the way, got into 3....

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commcycle
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 12:44:17 PM »

Octagonal - it's not clear from your post if you've seen your recommendations or not. I would say this is a good place to start investigating, if you're on good terms with those who wrote them, and your GREs/grades are solid. Again only if your recommenders are willing to and you have a good relationship with them.

Enthusiastic proponents do not necessarily a good recommendation make.

I got a terrible recommendation from my thesis adviser. Absolutely ghastly, truth be told. Full of generalities ("commcycle has the ability to quick recall information"), nonspecific language ("he would be good for your program"), and (the kicker) he didn't discuss the thesis or discuss his role as adviser!!! The least you would think he would do is bring up one or two specificexamples of things I did right on the thesis, but no.

It was a crap recommendation and I had to run with it. Only afterwards did I realize how poor a picture it painted of me professionally and academically.

Not because he didn't believe in me, but he wrote a recommendation like he would a quantitative paper: dry and lifeless.
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leopard
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 05:15:20 PM »

When I was a rejected candidate to a couple programs, I politely asked why so I could bolster any deficiencies.  I was lucky in that both programs gave me detailed, helpful, and downright pleasant responses.  It certainly can't hurt you.  Just don't be surprised or take it personally if you don't get a response.  FWIW, I did it through email.

One program gave me very useful info; another didn't respond at all. I emailed both and then spoke to people from the former over the phone. However, just be aware that even if you get helpful info, it won't necessarily translate into an offer next year, since the pool will be different. But I think it's worth asking.

I wish I had had Pink's advice; I should have applied to more schools.
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t_r_b
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 05:39:18 PM »

The first thing I'd suggest is to have someone in the field look over your personal statement. That and the letters are the two elements of the application that would make you stand out the most from the crowd. I'd start with the personal statement, both because you already have a copy and because you yourself control the content.
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hegemony
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 12:29:29 PM »

I don't know what field you're in, but in my field (literature) the writing sample is paramount, and after that the personal statement.  Recommendations don't matter that much unless they're bad (and they're 99.9% good).  I would ask someone you know in the field to look over your sample, if you have one, and personal statement.  The schools you applied to probably won't be much help, because they'd have to dredge up your file from 200 others, read it again, and concoct unoffensive generalities that describe your situation.  Your former prof might be more helpful, but you should send him the materials again, not ask him to dig them up. 

Incidentally, the term is "shoo-in," not "shoe-in."  Often we have ten or fifteen candidates for every spot on our list, all of whom seem well qualified, and we're sharp-eyed in looking for any flaw that allows us to cross one off the list.  I well remember the candidate who said throughout her personal statement that she wanted to study "Virginia Wolf."  So: proofread.
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librarianx
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2008, 08:42:45 PM »

For what its worth, I only applied to four programs (or was it five...), barely talked to any body at these institutions, and got the same results you did. I found out later at a conference that the one possible mentor that I had been in touch with, had indeed accepted me, but the department rejected me (I have been told it was a departmental politics thing). So, this little inkling helped me this year. I applied to about fifteen different universities at all levels and talked to as many possible advisors as I could before hand. Voila! 40% success rate and three offers of full funding. What changed on my application? I retailored each of my SOP, and I had completed my MA. I also went out and got some adjunct experience under my belt and continued to present at conferences, even though I was not directly affiliated with an institution any more. Now every case differs, but I think the moral of the story is to continue to make yourself appear to be involved. Also, make sure you find potential mentors before hand if you can. (I did get into two universities that I did not talk to anybody at, but I accepted the offer at one that I felt like I knew people at.)
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