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[reslifeguy]

Poor whites don't necessarily enjoy "white privilege" like middle class or wealthy whites. It was certainly my experience as a disabled, poor white male that I faced different challenges than my peers who were either wealthier or not disabled.

Having strabismus and cerebral palsy I was (and sometimes still am) stopped by police officers and others who insisted that I was intoxicated; I've been threatened with arrest owing to this fact more than a few times.

Some people enjoy privilege that others do not based on a variety of factors. This is how the world works. I've yet to hear of a truly egalitarian society... some group is always more privileged than another. My friend who's related the the Vanderbilts, for example, enjoys several categories of privilege that I will never enjoy, no matter how many degrees I have, how much respect I have in my field, or how much wealth I acquire.

Why? He was born into a family with the right pedigree.

I've been told by search committees that I wasn't hired because I wasn't "diverse" enough to meet the needs of their search which certainly rankled and to my mind indicates a reverse sort of privilege for being a part of a minority group. This also seems like discrimination based on the color of my skin.

On the other hand a colleauge of mine mentioned the other day, to a group of graduate students, that a particular lecturer had "done quite well for a Black woman" when referring to her use of Standard American English during a presentation while going on to say that "sometimes you have to lower the standards for a generation or two to get minorities in the door."

The comment was somewhat surprising to me, especially from this colleauge, but it was one that echoed a sentiment I've heard often enough with regard to AA and privilege.

[dr_mcmom]

There is a difference between individual experiences of bias and institutional/systemic bias.

I'm reading alot from folks who have experience individual bias...but stop looking at the situation thru your singular lens!  Statistically, white males (regardless of rich, poor, etc) are more likely to face fewer barriers than women, people of color, the disabled, etc. 

Those who are poor ARE discriminated against.  However, unlike a person whose skin is dark, one can disguise being poor - at least for the initial "sizing up" session most folks do - by dressing them up in expensive clothes, fix teeth, etc.

My Jewish friends have described many situations where folks didn't realize they were Jewish, and ended up showing their bias.  My friends with spouses from minority groups also have experienced the same.

One of the bonuses of White Privilege is that whites don't HAVE to think about these things/experiences for the most part....while minorities deal with it in one form or another, and in varying degrees daily (and "DAILY" is NOT an exaggeration). 

[reslifeguy]

I've had similar experiences where people will make comments about people with disabilites without realizing that I'm also disabled.

I also don't tend to think of myself as someone who would count as a "diversity hire" although I'm slowly finding out, thanks to the many AA/EOE cards I've filled out with the latest job search, that many universites are happy to qualify me as one.

And it bothers me to think I might get my next position because I ticked the box next to 'disabled' on the postcard.

[polly_mer]

Some people enjoy privilege that others do not based on a variety of factors. This is how the world works. I've yet to hear of a truly egalitarian society... some group is always more privileged than another.

I think that this is the salient point.  I grew up in a completely Caucasian town, but there were clear and strictly enforced stratifications based on qualities other than skin color.

Currently, I work in a field that has an international community and it's very clear that skin tone isn't what sets one as part of the elite.  I have become inured to the implications by German and French colleagues, even at American institutions, that Americans are stupid and ill educated until proven otherwise on a case by case basis.

I live in a state in which I am a minority and it has been very clear that I simply don't have and cannot acquire the connections to get some of the choice jobs simply because I am other and therefore shut out of certain options.

Yes, it is a crummy deal and I know why people would attempt to pass as the elite group if possible.  I also know the jealousy and sniping toward those people by those who obviously can't pass and would like to share in the unearned privileges.

It's unclear to me what the purpose of calling this situation "white privilege" gains anyone or what yet another round of "The world is unfair and I'm not at the top of the heap" will accomplish.

Oh, and the mean part of me wants to respond to drjomc.  Why should someone else's experiences matter more to me than my own?  One of the problems in getting some of these situations fixed is the tendency to start "my group is more oppressed than your group" fights that merely waste energy.  Consequently, the people who don't have a stake in getting institutions and societies changed say "See, all they do is whine about the same boring issues that were resolved years ago.  The rest of us are going to do something interesting."

[dr_mcmom]

Oh, and the mean part of me wants to respond to drjomc.  Why should someone else's experiences matter more to me than my own?  One of the problems in getting some of these situations fixed is the tendency to start "my group is more oppressed than your group" fights that merely waste energy.  Consequently, the people who don't have a stake in getting institutions and societies changed say "See, all they do is whine about the same boring issues that were resolved years ago.  The rest of us are going to do something interesting."

Polly_mer, your response isn't mean. :)  And I think your question is legitimate.  It does highlight the cultural emphasis/perspective on individuality (w/ emphasis on ME and I, not WE). 

Hmmm.  If we can't call White Privilege "White Privilege" - what should it be called?  What should gender privilege be called?  What would be the appropriate euphamism for rape?  "Deflowering?"  "Slightly rough intercourse?"

Scholars in that area assert that we can't begin to address systemic changes unless people acknowledge the bias exists.  Perhaps this is a bad analogy, but I can't really quit drinking until I admit that I'm an alcoholic (I'm not - hahahahaha). 

So, ok...We don't agree...but disagreeing with me doesn't make your response mean in and of itself.  You brought up good questions, some food for thought, points to ponder.  Civil discourse is cool :)

Good Day RESLIFEGUY!  Question for you sir.  You wrote "And it bothers me to think I might get my next position because I ticked the box next to 'disabled' on the postcard."

So....would it bother you more or less than above situaiton to be overlooked/disregarded for your next position BECAUSE of your disability - not even given a chance to show you are well (heck even BEST) qualified?

OK - back to work for me!  Deadline!

[beacon1]

Bill Cosby doesn't deny the existence of White Privilege, nor of institutionalized racism.  His position is that while it is a barrier to overcome, it should not define one's existence nor the parameters of POTENTIAL and individual responsibility.

I don't deny the existence of advantages due to skin color or racism. I do have a problem with saying it is "institutionalized" and that I am a "privileged whity". Truth be known, almost anyone can make it in our culture (as proven by past and current presidents). I do agree it is easier for a white male, but that is just one advantage. Let's face it, there may be a woman or minority president in our future. There will probably never be a poor one...

It's unclear to me what the purpose of calling this situation "white privilege" gains anyone or what yet another round of "The world is unfair and I'm not at the top of the heap" will accomplish.

Oh, and the mean part of me wants to respond to drjomc.  Why should someone else's experiences matter more to me than my own?  One of the problems in getting some of these situations fixed is the tendency to start "my group is more oppressed than your group" fights that merely waste energy.  Consequently, the people who don't have a stake in getting institutions and societies changed say "See, all they do is whine about the same boring issues that were resolved years ago.  The rest of us are going to do something interesting."

My point exactly... It is a waste of time to get caught in the problem. So what would you have the Government do? give every minority preferential treatment over every non minority? It is a slippery slope to traverse.

[beacon1]

Hmmm.  If we can't call White Privilege "White Privilege" - what should it be called?  What should gender privilege be called?  What would be the appropriate euphamism for rape?  "Deflowering?"  "Slightly rough intercourse?"

Couldnt we just call them societal advantages that could change with a population or cultural shift? Don't get me wrong, I am not endorsing that they should exist or should be allowed to continue. I do think it is more important to discuss how to improve racial/gender relations rather than pointing at the divide all the time. Pointing at the divide fuels anger and resentment and promotes a victim/perpertrator mentallity. This kind of brainwashing is frequently used as a political tool.

[sockgumbee]

Why mark--ie point out a phenomenon called White privilege? Because it does exist.

Prejudice against the poor--which even (as if anyone didn't know this) happens with folks that work in social service is not the same--it's another kind of problem.

Prejudice against, supposedly stupid Americans, as Polly Mer mentioned, by people who have the power to gate keep in disciplines/industries/hiring decisions--well that sucks, but it's not the same.

Prejudice against people who have a disability (or how ever they would like their state of being addressed) is another kind of oppression.

But recognizing white privilege doesn't negate any of these and other real issues that people of all kinds face.

I would say that if you have certain kinds of disabilities you can see how society is organized-physically and philosophically for the 'abled'. And when you go out into the world you are reminded of this even when there are accommodations.

To address Polly Mer's question--I don't think addressing white privilege is always about "let's blame the world" or wallow in our "victim-hood"--but to point out to others that they, by virtue of their skin color and culture/ethnicity don't have to be reminded of their race/skin color/ethnicity daily--as Dr Jomc says--it's not an exaggeration. To remind them that their contributions or contributions by people like them are recognized so much more often than those of people of color. But the other part of this is that people of color and/or other minorities can have their own prejudices--as Res Life Guy illustrates. Like my gay ex-boss who wouldn't let us speak Spanish--"Speak American" he would tell us. No one is saying that persons of color get a pass for any prejudices they might hold.

And no one is saying that only the effects of white privilege matter--if you look at what people who are doing racial justice work--they look at other kinds of prejudice. If you look at the work of people doing social justice work--they are working on economic inequities for anyone. some of us, do work with particular populations--but even then--that does not mean that we are not aware of or understand the problems that other people face. But why we talk about white privilege is that it is systemic--in a way ablism is, sexism has been and can be. If people become aware of this perhaps we can all change the system/processes that support this.

But the bottom line is: white privilege is added to whatever other barriers you have as a person of color--so it's on top of poverty and/or disability and/or work in an area where Americans are devalued or are a woman in a traditional male field etc. etc.

[beacon1]

But the bottom line is: white privilege is added to whatever other barriers you have as a person of color--so it's on top of poverty and/or disability and/or work in an area where Americans are devalued or are a woman in a traditional male field etc. etc.

OK... so you have established that being born nonwhite is the worst thing that could ever happen to you (please don't tell Asians this). So what do you want to do about it? Cut every nonwhite a check and call it a day? Whine and moan more? Do you want to change the system? If so how?

The ability to sue for racial discrimination is maddening. That, in itself, represents a huge tactical advantage in fighting racism. Isn't that enough. Let's face it, we don't live in the 60's anymore... this is 2006. Today afford people of all colors more opportunities than any time in our history. Can't we embrace today and do the best with what we have.

The truth is this, currently the system is doing less to limit people of color than the people of color are doing to limit themselves. Deal with it.

[bewildered]

Let's face it, we don't live in the 60's anymore... this is 2006.

I'm guessing it was the drugs that have made you miss the last 2 years.

[beacon1]

Let's face it, we don't live in the 60's anymore... this is 2006.

I'm guessing it was the drugs that have made you miss the last 2 years.

Please excuse my typos and improper grammer... I'm a product of the public education system.

[scarletbegonia]

Why mark--ie point out a phenomenon called White privilege? Because it does exist.

Prejudice against the poor--which even (as if anyone didn't know this) happens with folks that work in social service is not the same--it's another kind of problem.

Prejudice against, supposedly stupid Americans, as Polly Mer mentioned, by people who have the power to gate keep in disciplines/industries/hiring decisions--well that sucks, but it's not the same.

Prejudice against people who have a disability (or how ever they would like their state of being addressed) is another kind of oppression.

But recognizing white privilege doesn't negate any of these and other real issues that people of all kinds face.

I would say that if you have certain kinds of disabilities you can see how society is organized-physically and philosophically for the 'abled'. And when you go out into the world you are reminded of this even when there are accommodations.

To address Polly Mer's question--I don't think addressing white privilege is always about "let's blame the world" or wallow in our "victim-hood"--but to point out to others that they, by virtue of their skin color and culture/ethnicity don't have to be reminded of their race/skin color/ethnicity daily--as Dr Jomc says--it's not an exaggeration. To remind them that their contributions or contributions by people like them are recognized so much more often than those of people of color. But the other part of this is that people of color and/or other minorities can have their own prejudices--as Res Life Guy illustrates. Like my gay ex-boss who wouldn't let us speak Spanish--"Speak American" he would tell us. No one is saying that persons of color get a pass for any prejudices they might hold.

And no one is saying that only the effects of white privilege matter--if you look at what people who are doing racial justice work--they look at other kinds of prejudice. If you look at the work of people doing social justice work--they are working on economic inequities for anyone. some of us, do work with particular populations--but even then--that does not mean that we are not aware of or understand the problems that other people face. But why we talk about white privilege is that it is systemic--in a way ablism is, sexism has been and can be. If people become aware of this perhaps we can all change the system/processes that support this.

But the bottom line is: white privilege is added to whatever other barriers you have as a person of color--so it's on top of poverty and/or disability and/or work in an area where Americans are devalued or are a woman in a traditional male field etc. etc.

I have avoided posting on this topic thus far, as I have very conflicting opinions about most of what has been said. I don't see any posters saying white privilege doesn't exist. It is not a new term and I think most people who study or are interested in race are aware that it exists and is real. At the same time, I find quotes like the ones above (prejudice against the poor...it's another kind of problem) troubling, divisive and ultimately self-defeating. Haven't we learned yet that hierarchies of oppression only serve those at the top of the hierarchy? Or that forcing people to choose among categories of oppression (race, ethnicity, religion, sex, gender, etc.) creates dichotomies that are difficult to negotiate for people who fall into more than one category? Oppression does not occur in a vacuum. An oppressor does not say "I am oppressing you because you are Hispanic, but *not* because you are a woman." While sexual harassment may be recognized, it still has a higher standard of proof than racial harassment. And the courts still don't allow people to sue for multiple forms of oppression. But few people do anything about it because it's easier to sit back and say "it's not my problem," because it's a "different kind of problem" or "I'm white - it doesn't apply to me" or "race is a bigger problem" or "laws already exist to protect against discrimination" or any of the other excuses people make for not caring. MLK, Jr. recognized more than 40 years ago that "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Have we really progressed so little that we still need to fight about who is more oppressed?

[polly_mer]

But the bottom line is: white privilege is added to whatever other barriers you have as a person of color--so it's on top of poverty and/or disability and/or work in an area where Americans are devalued or are a woman in a traditional male field etc. etc.

Well, we're just going to have to disagree on this one.  I don't believe that "white privilege" trumps all other forms of oppression.  Racism does exist, but either we are working for a world in which skin color, birth socioeconomic class, gender, national origin, and other non-relevant facts don't matter or we're just fooling around by playing the "I'm more oppressed than you are" game while other people are getting on with real work.

[rodentmind]

The term "white privilege" is a catch all term suggesting that every white person is privileged. It be true that a majority of whites come from privilege or had privileges extended to them, but it is not a fact of birth.

No offense, but you're missing the point of the term. It doesn't have anything to do with economics (with coming from privilege). It relates purely to the privileges afforded by being Caucasian.

[rodentmind]

Poor whites don't necessarily enjoy "white privilege" like middle class or wealthy whites. It was certainly my experience as a disabled, poor white male that I faced different challenges than my peers who were either wealthier or not disabled.

There's white privilege, there's the privilege of the "able-bodied," and there's the privilege of the rich. They're different kinds of privileges; different biases and prejudices and oppressive forces operate with respect to each category.