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Author Topic: Dilemma -- which one to accept?  (Read 1733 times)
orchid
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« on: March 08, 2008, 05:38:54 AM »

Another acceptance dilemma.

Field: Social science.

University 1--
  • Top research university.
  • Great match with my interests. Broader range of courses in areas directly related to my proposed topic of study. Generally, more courses that are on my "wavelength." Really like my potential advisors.
  • Good funding, low cost of living.
  • Great track record of students getting outside grants.
  • Good placement.
  • Better "feeling."
  • I would love to live in this area, but my spouse would probably just (barely) tolerate it. Then again, she might adapt and love it.


University 2--
  • Top research university. (Department is ranked higher than Univ 1's, though I don't really see why.)
  • Instant name recognition worldwide -- prestige may open doors during job hunt later on, though Univ 1 graduates more people and they seem to be just as well represented in top programs. (I will be just happy for any job if/when I graduate.)
  • Superior funding (one more year guaranteed), also quite reasonable cost of living.
  • Contribution to health benefits for my spouse and (if we have one) child.
  • Good match with my main potential advisor and several others; however, there is one potential advisor whose work I'm not really excited about, though I like her/his topic. Overall, I'm not quite as excited about the work at Univ 2 as I am about the work at Univ 1, but Univ 2 is following trends that are more fashionable.
  • Good range of courses, but not as many in topics that directly overlap with my interests. Certainly a lot of great scholars there to work with, but I might need to be more flexible with my topic (which, of course, might change anyway).
  • Department is known for having some politics (schism?) and seems also to have had pretty high turnover of profs in recent years, though this turnover may be quite common at any top research univ where tenure is tough to get (?). Anyway, my main potential advisor is there to stay.
  • The "feeling" is not quite as good, but I have a hard time passing up the prestige (i.e. I have a good feeling about that).
  • The area is fine for me, and my spouse would be much happier there.
  • Great pizza.

Your comments on others' questions have already given me a lot of insight. Now I've got a conundrum of my own. Being far removed from academia, I'd be very grateful for any advice. Do I follow the money?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 05:42:24 AM by orchid » Logged
t_r_b
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 04:19:24 PM »

I'd question whether the extra year guaranteed would matter much: do grad students at #1 have trouble getting funding after the guarantee runs out? In general, it's a rare grad student who actually finishes the degree within the 4 or 5 (or whatever) years of guaranteed funding, so for both schools take a look at what happens to people in the latter stages of the program.

The "one potential advisor" you don't like is irrelevant, unless for some reason you'd be obligated to work with this person. Since there are several people there you do like, I wouldn't worry about this.

The selection of courses offered is not that important: coursework is not a particularly important aspect of grad school. Being able to study with teachers you're excited about working with is far more important, regardless of the course content.

In general, I'd encourage you to go with the advisor(s) you "really like" as opposed to one who is merely a "good match." But the choice of advisor shouldn't just be a matter of likability: how excited are they about you and your work? What do their current students say about their track record and reliability? How successful have their former students been in getting published and finding jobs?

Tread carefully re: your spouse's preferences. You say that spouse would "probably just (barely) tolerate" #1. Have you discussed this yet? Have you or spouse visited one or both prospective locations? In talking to current grad students at both places, you might want to ask about how non-academic partners have managed there. You're absolutely right to say that she might adapt and love it, even if she's not excited about it to begin with. But if you're both moving, than the decision about where to move needs to be a joint one. If she feels like she's being dragged along against her own inclinations (whether or not she voices these feelings) then you're both in for a good deal of grief.

On the flip side, I've heard faculty members advise against going to grad school in a location that you enjoy, because it will be excruciating when you eventually have to leave. And of course America's best university towns are filled with former grad students who decided they'd rather not leave. FWIW.
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orchid
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 06:46:19 PM »

Thanks very much for the advice. You are helping me see the forest for the trees.

Looking at it closely, I see the key difference in funding between Univ 1 and Univ 2 is that Univ 2 has offered two years of coursework at the beginning without teaching, whereas Univ 1 expects TAing in the second year. Univ 2 also promises one more year total of funding, but as you pointed out Univ 1 will probably give TAships to people who are progressing towards their degree. (Of course, it might be possible to win other scholarships at Univ 1 that don't require [as much] teaching.)

Off the bat, this funding difference doesn't need to be a decisive factor for me, since I like teaching. But is it a big difference? Wouldn't it be an advantage to focus just on coursework/laying research foundations in the first couple years without worrying about anything else? Especially since I am switching fields and will need to develop a good base in my new discipline...

Main potential advisor at Univ 2 is going through effort to let me know she/he is excited to work with me. However, I do wonder how it is to work with her/him since she/he seems very busy with outside pursuits. How do I go about asking current students about her/his advising track records? Do I just write current grad students (whom I've been encouraged to contact) and ask, "What's Prof X like?" Is this considered nosy prying or justified due diligence? And even if I get a lukewarm response, how is it possible to make a judgment on a sample of one or two?

Without any experience, it's difficult for me to judge on these questions. Your advice is greatly appreciated!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 06:50:31 PM by orchid » Logged
orchid
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 07:10:44 PM »

I should add that the offer from Univ 2 to help with family health insurance is significant since these costs would be a significant extra burden for us.
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t_r_b
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2008, 12:05:08 AM »

Looking at it closely, I see the key difference in funding between Univ 1 and Univ 2 is that Univ 2 has offered two years of coursework at the beginning without teaching, whereas Univ 1 expects TAing in the second year. Univ 2 also promises one more year total of funding, but as you pointed out Univ 1 will probably give TAships to people who are progressing towards their degree. (Of course, it might be possible to win other scholarships at Univ 1 that don't require [as much] teaching.)

Off the bat, this funding difference doesn't need to be a decisive factor for me, since I like teaching. But is it a big difference? Wouldn't it be an advantage to focus just on coursework/laying research foundations in the first couple years without worrying about anything else? Especially since I am switching fields and will need to develop a good base in my new discipline...

Yes, I suspect most grad students would prefer to start with two teaching-free years rather than one. On the other hand, you need to learn at some point how to balance your research agenda with the demands of teaching, so TA-ing in the second year would certainly not be the end of the world. Since both programs are offering you multi-year packages, I wouldn't make the differences in those packages the deciding factor.

Quote
Main potential advisor at Univ 2 is going through effort to let me know she/he is excited to work with me. However, I do wonder how it is to work with her/him since she/he seems very busy with outside pursuits. How do I go about asking current students about her/his advising track records? Do I just write current grad students (whom I've been encouraged to contact) and ask, "What's Prof X like?" Is this considered nosy prying or justified due diligence? And even if I get a lukewarm response, how is it possible to make a judgment on a sample of one or two?

You've been encouraged to contact them, so you have no reason on earth not to contact them. You're seriously considering entering their intellectual community, which is in itself sufficient justification for getting in touch. Entering a grad program without talking to the current grad students would be like buying a house without knowing anything about the neighborhood: i.e., a really really bad idea. Contact them ASAP.

As far as making a judgment on limited input, by contacting the current grads you'll be getting a wider (and potentially much more revealing) range of input than you've got now. If you're concerned about making an uninformed decision (and you should be) then that's all the more reason to contact them.

Regarding the busy advisor: much of this will depend on you and your needs. Some people function very well with laissez faire, "stop in once or twice a year so I know you're still alive" advising. Other people need more intensive guidance. One of the things you'll learn from talking to the current grad students is what kinds of students thrive with your prospective advisor and what kinds do not. You can then assess which category you'd fit into.

Regarding the health insurance issue: does #1 offer no family coverage whatsoever? Or is it just that you'd have to pay a higher premium? If the former, then I'd have to wonder what century that institution thinks it's living in - and you should ask current grad students how they handle it. If the latter, then it's really just another factor to throw into the financial mix. As you balance out stipend levels with the local cost of living, take account of the added health care costs of program #1. If after all is added and subtracted there is a major difference in your prospective take-home pay, then you and your spouse need to decide whether or not the more miserly program is worth the financial sacrifice.

In general, if it comes down to slightly better funding vs. a slightly better fit academically, I'd go with the academic fit every time. But as with the location issues, that's an issue that you and your spouse need to tackle together.

Speaking of your spouse, where does she stand on all this? How does she feel about picking up and moving? What will she be doing with herself while you're in grad school? If the answer is, finding some kind of job that will help pay the bills, proceed with caution. And you might want to check out some of the threads on relationships between grad students and non-academic partners. It's not an easy road.
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hegemony
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2008, 03:30:51 AM »

Given what you've said, to me choice #2 looks like an easy win.  It's an excellent school, it gives you an extra year of funding, you get twice as long without teaching responsibilities (yes, this is a big advantage, and don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to learn how to teach and juggle it with research -- the rest of your life), you have a big advantage on health insurance, you get the hiring advantages of prestige (and probably also grant-application advantages, connection advantages, etc.), and your spouse would be happier there.  Your potential advisor there is reaching out to you.  They do cutting-edge topics.  What's not to like?  Your having a "less good feeling" about the place is too vague for me to really know what that's about.  #1 sounds "good enough," but not really, really good.  Remember, also, the one-down rule of hiring: chances are huge that you'll be hired at an institution one notch down from your grad school.  So choosing #2 gives you an whole extra tier at which to be hired, if you follow me.  It expands your options.  It seems pretty clear to me.  Contact the grad students there and see what they say (and also contact those at #1, and see what they say).  But from the information you've provided, #2 looks pretty darn attractive to me.
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orchid
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2008, 08:32:16 PM »

Thanks very much for your perspectives and feedback. I had been at kind of a deadlock before I posted yesterday, and the dialog has helped me move forward. So I'm very grateful to both of you for taking the time to respond. (Sometimes when I respond to forums I wonder if my words are just disappearing out into the ether, and in this case I assure you that your words are not!)

I'm still thinking everything over, but I'll get some new information, i.e. contact grad students, before posting again.

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 08:33:12 PM by orchid » Logged
foxy_oxie
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2008, 09:39:45 PM »

For what it's worth, another vote for Uni2... the $ issues really do mean a lot. And a happy spouse is a good thing.
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locutus
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2008, 10:38:07 PM »

These both seem like pretty good fits for you. I'm leaning towards #2. Money issues can mean a lot. In my opinion a slight difference in offered courses isn't that important.
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the_walrus
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2008, 04:56:57 AM »

I agree with others who have said that 2 sounds good, and I think it's particularly important that you take your partner's concerns seriously.  If you end up at a place that's great, but partner is miserable, that could defeat the purpose of going to grad school in the first place.
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compneurodoc
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2008, 06:30:22 AM »

I'd lean towards 1 as it sounds like you're more excited about the program and mentors there.

I picked the grad school I 'fell in love' with and it had serious funding shortcomings compared to my other options, including some Ivies (re: name recognition). But it just was where I wanted to be and the people were the people I wanted to work with so I somewhat irrationally went there. Turned out that my mentors found me a great research assistant position a few months after I got there and I was well funded throughout my PhD AND got to go where I wanted to. It was the best decision... (I'm not saying this is typical but possible)
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malingered
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2008, 09:29:07 AM »

If your spouse really has strong feelings about one place versus the other I think you ought to pick the one she prefers, given that they both appear to be very good fits for you. There's certainly something to be said for "feel", but that doesn't stand out as a decisive factor among the others you list (most of which seem to favor #2).
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