next »

[bigsky]

I don't necessarily think this is a SLAC vs R1 question. It is really dependent on the institution/college/Dean whatever. If they want to keep your spouse then it might depend on a counteroffer somewhere else and the willingness to move on your part. We hired a couple just a few years ago, one tt and one visiting. After less than a year the visiting position was turned into a tt and viola, two tt positions (I am at a midwest directional school, technically we are an R1 though). You need someone in the upper administration that really likes you both, wants to find/create a position and will actually follow through. The stars aligned for this couple.

[bigsky]

One other thing, don't be so sure you are unknown to your partner's suitors. We have had faculty interview where we knew about the spouse. It is a small world and not just limited to Google searches as I have seen it in at least one letter of rec.

[canadia]

The question you are asking is, at this prestigious SLAC will you have an advantage should a t-t job in your field open up? The short answer is NO. In fact, it is more likely that you will be at a disadvantage. While there are many schools that prefer to hire the internal candidate, these tend to be schools that have a harder time recruiting (for whatever reason: heavier teaching loads, lower salaries, etc.). Schools that fancy themselves as somehow being "better" make it harder for internal candidates under the assumption that if that person was so great, he/she would have had a job.

That's what I thought/assumed. Especially b/c of the "prestige" issue.

I know this is hard to hear because it seems that you are hoping someone tells you that you will have an advantage if you go there as a VAP, work your tail off publishing, and "fit" the job description.

Actually, I was merely hoping to steer the discourse towards these types of responses and away from issues of funding a TT-line.

After all, those grow on trees. ;)

[tenured_feminist]

Don't underestimate the difficulties of "publishing one's butt off" while in a VAP line. You're generally teaching what they need rather than what you want/have prepped and the teaching loads are often heavier than for tenure-stream faculty.

You are really best off asking these questions through back channels at the institution you're considering. But as a general rule, the answers to your questions are the ones you're hearing here -- that recruiting departments are often overoptimistic about lines/retirements, that VAPs don't have any particular advantage and may indeed face substantial disadvantages, and that R1 universities/selective SLACs are often not super terrific on partner/spouse issues.

I know you don't like what you are hearing, but will you feel better in three years if you and your partner are on the market again because there's no job for you?

[canadia]

I know you don't like what you are hearing, but will you feel better in three years if you and your partner are on the market again because there's no job for you?

Why do ppl keep saying that?

I'm fully aware of the difficulty of one person getting a TT job, of any job lines being opened up PLUS the beyond unpleasant reality of having a two-body problem. That's all a given.

Just b/c I ask if elite SLACs are more "en famille" than R1s doesn't mean that I'm reluctant to hear the truth. I'm unfamiliar w/ them, so I really don't know.

[jonas_salk]

About the new line - my department mentioned it at my interview (a new line, no less) and yes, the dean really opened the new line this year and we might even have a second one for next year.  It's not always a recruitment/smoke-up-ass/pipedream situation.

As for a SLAC being more family-friendly than R1, it truly depends on the individual institution.  My undergraduate SLAC has couples all over the place but current SLAC employer is reluctant to do this.

[heronhouse]

It's also worth keeping in mind that deans change, budgets change, etc.  Even at prestigious SLACs.  If they can't give the partner hire now and you are willing to accept a VAP, ask to get in writing something about the priority of turning *your* VAP into the t-t line.  I had a friend who negotiated in this way.  Her partner received a 2-year VAP, and at the time of negotiations, they signed a contract for the partner's t-t position for years 3 and beyond.  (The school just didn't have the ability to create a t-t line in the first two years.)

My point is that the school will be most flexible and creative during negotiations.  If they really want your partner, then now is the time to negotiate and ask them to think creatively.  And then get everything, everything, everything in writing.  It still may not materialize, but then you have substance when you go to the Dean later, rather than him/her telling you: "I don't know what made you think this would become a t-t position."  If they are not willing to put things in writing now, you should be pretty darn suspicious that this is all part of the courting dance.

As others indicated, I don't think prestigious SLACs will be more interested in family than R1s would be.  It tends to be schools who have more difficult times recruiting/retaining people that come up with partner-friendly policies.

[sibyl]

As bigsky suggests, it's impossible to generalize about SLACs and R1s on this issue.  There are only helpful policies and unhelpful ones.

Growing departments are more likely to have the ability to hire spouses.  Ditto large departments, ditto wealthy institutions.  Then again, some institutions are committed to spousal-hire policies as a faculty-retention policy.

Always ask; never be surprised when the answer is no.

[canadia]

It's also worth keeping in mind that deans change, budgets change, etc.  Even at prestigious SLACs.  If they can't give the partner hire now and you are willing to accept a VAP, ask to get in writing something about the priority of turning *your* VAP into the t-t line.  I had a friend who negotiated in this way.  Her partner received a 2-year VAP, and at the time of negotiations, they signed a contract for the partner's t-t position for years 3 and beyond.

So let me get this straight:

Your friend negotiated salary, start-up package, moving fees, a computer, a skateboard (don't judge... don't judge) AND "VAP in X field will turn into a TT line w/in 3 years".

Correct?

[heronhouse]

My friend eschewed negotiating hard for other things in order to negotiate for his/her partner, so I can't vouch for him/her negotiating for things like start-up funds, moving expenses, etc.  But, yes, the partner did sign ink on a deal for a VAP that would definitely transition into t-t.  The t-t contract was signed at the same time as the VAP as far as I understand.

I'm not at all trying to suggest that this is normal, common, likely, etc.  Rather I mentioned it to emphasize that when you are negotiating, you should get things in writing.  Everything else is air.  As one poster pointed out, a dean can suddenly disremember earlier promises about how a visiting line will "likely" transition into t-t.  It's worth knowing that some institutions are indeed willing to put such transitions in writing.

I think too often academics put faith in the word of administrators.  But unless it's in writing, it's not real.

[canadatourismguy]

Best piece of advice I ever received.  "It doesn't exist until the ink is dry on the contract."  Make your decisions based on no chance and if something does happen, count it as a bonus.