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[dr_stones]

Look, I'll be honest: whenever I hear about "300 years of slavery and subjugation," I want to say "talk to the Irish."

[sockgumbee]

Look, I'll be honest: whenever I hear about "300 years of slavery and subjugation," I want to say "talk to the Irish."

Honesty? Dr. Stones, are you sure that's wise?

Although with the Irish, they gave us a US president who was both Irish and Catholic, because they did eventually become "white". Though they still have the stereotype of being heavy drinkers/drunks, unfortunately. And yes in the history of the US plenty of indentured servants were Irish and more slave than servant. And yes, the Irish were, as new immigrants shut out of many jobs in the US. And yes, they were thought of as not quite human by the English and others. And yes, now they have the ability to shut others out of jobs they took a toe hold in like firefighters and police officers in large cities, although that is slowly changing.

What was the point again?

[scheherazade]

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

[sockgumbee]

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

Red herring, anyone? Try them on very dry crackers.

Gee, you are so right Scheherazade. All those people who came from Ireland to the geographic area now commonly called the US before the creation of the US are Irish-Americans. So stupid of me, sorry.

Yes, even in my stupidity I do realize the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans.

A more apt question seems to be who subjugated the Irish? Are the usual suspect minority folks responsible? If so I can understand this turn in the conversation. Otherwise, um, the appetizers aren't.

[acrimone]

The Irish were enslaved and brutalized by Republicans.

Just like the Aztecs.

Yes, you heard it here.  Cortes was a Republican.  So were Edward the Black Prince and Cardinal Richlieu.

[bewildered]

This thread is already turning funny.  Well done.

More seriously, if those who say "run the gambit" and those who say "run the gamut" can learn to coexist, then that will give me hope for the future of America.  In a diverse society, there's room for both.

[dr_stones]

Uh, the Irish in Ireland.  400 years of English occupation, disfranchisement, landlessness, and English racism. 

See below:

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

[scheherazade]

Uh, the Irish in Ireland.  400 years of English occupation, disfranchisement, landlessness, and English racism. 

See below:

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

Precisely.  Sockgumbee, you still weren't getting it.  Sorry.

[dr_stones]

Scheherazade, wasn't it Chris Rock who said of Ireland, "white people, they always find a way . . . "

[scheherazade]

I'm not sure - I've seen him lots of times, but not lately.  Now you've piqued my curiosity, though!

[polly_mer]

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

Red herring, anyone? Try them on very dry crackers.

I have a hugely funny, somewhat appropriate story that one of my friends told me about his experience as a public school teacher in Washington D.C.

The first time he told some students to knock it off and settle down, one responded with "You can't tell me what to do, White Man.  That's oppression like you people always do."

So my friend responded with "Yes, I can.  I'm a teacher here.  I don't care about skin color.  Color has nothing to do with acting properly.  I have five adopted siblings and we vary from my pale freckled complexion to darker than you.  Also for the record, I am Canadian so my ancestors had nothing to do with enslaving your ancestors.  In fact, my parents emigrated from Ireland where their clans had been conquered and enslaved for longer than your ancestors.  You are being prejudiced against me and I resent it."

Apparently, a week later, he came across some students horsing around again and reprimanded them.  Another student mentioned "Whitey" in the backtalk and one of the original witness students said in a very sincere voice "Dude, he's not white.  He's Irish!"

[sockgumbee]

Uh, the Irish in Ireland.  400 years of English occupation, disfranchisement, landlessness, and English racism. 

See below:

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

Precisely.  Sockgumbee, you still weren't getting it.  Sorry.

Scheherazade
Sorry, I thought you'd recognize sarcasm in the same way you thought I could read Dr. Stones' mind.

So is your point that we should only look at the disenfranchisement of the Irish in Europe? We should ignore their experiences in the US? That only Dr. Stones can indicate what part of Irish history we are allowed to discuss? Or maybe the point is, since the long, torturous history of the Irish has come up in almost every thread on diversity I've read, that the Irish  (ie those with Irish heritage) are really the only people who have a right to talk about abjection: everyone else should STFU? Pray tell.

<Damn Republicans, they spoil everything.>

This thread is already turning funny.  Well done.

More seriously, if those who say "run the gambit" and those who say "run the gamut" can learn to coexist, then that will give me hope for the future of America.  In a diverse society, there's room for both.

Yes, Bewildered the kind of diversity I'm after. Where the spellers and the spelling challenged, the grammarians and the grammar challenged, the wordsmith and the word challenged can live side by side in equanimity harmony.

<Look, all the herring are gone!>

[conjugate]

How about those of us who run the gauntlet?  Are we completely anathematized? 

Conjugate
who can't remember if he's Irish or Welsh, but there's some German and English and Scots in there too

[the_honey_badger]

Uh, the Irish in Ireland.  400 years of English occupation, disfranchisement, landlessness, and English racism. 

See below:

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

And, yet, neither *chattel* nor marked by racial characteristics that could not be overcome---change accent and religion (either by effort or a generation elsewhere) and name and presto-chango you are "English" or any other group of residents of the British Isles you want to claim to be.

[dr_stones]

Uh, the Irish in Ireland.  400 years of English occupation, disfranchisement, landlessness, and English racism. 

See below:

Um.  You do realize, sockgumbee, the difference between the Irish and Irish-Americans, right?  Study Irish history and Dr. Stones is only incorrect about the span of time.  Try at least 400 years and you're getting closer.

Precisely.  Sockgumbee, you still weren't getting it.  Sorry.

Scheherazade
Sorry, I thought you'd recognize sarcasm in the same way you thought I could read Dr. Stones' mind.

So is your point that we should only look at the disenfranchisement of the Irish in Europe? We should ignore their experiences in the US? That only Dr. Stones can indicate what part of Irish history we are allowed to discuss? Or maybe the point is, since the long, torturous history of the Irish has come up in almost every thread on diversity I've read, that the Irish  (ie those with Irish heritage) are really the only people who have a right to talk about abjection: everyone else should STFU? Pray tell.

<Damn Republicans, they spoil everything.>

This thread is already turning funny.  Well done.

More seriously, if those who say "run the gambit" and those who say "run the gamut" can learn to coexist, then that will give me hope for the future of America.  In a diverse society, there's room for both.

Yes, Bewildered the kind of diversity I'm after. Where the spellers and the spelling challenged, the grammarians and the grammar challenged, the wordsmith and the word challenged can live side by side in equanimity harmony.

<Look, all the herring are gone!>

I am the Arbiter of All Irish History.