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[sheinthespirit]

I am a newer to the boards and an infrequent poster.

That said, maybe someone has covered this topic before. 

My gripe?  When I thumb (scroll) through the postings, I find it so bothersome that many are so dismissive when it comes to issues of inclusion and ethnicity.

The comments/statements run the gambit: "What do we call them? How do we get them?  That concept is dated! Slavery is over!  Why do I have to be PC?"

So many perspectives, with little regard to the holistic lives of any non-white ethnic group in this country. 

People, nothing happens in a vacuum.  You cannot separate one's history from one's present state.  No matter how happy it will make some who are uncomfortable with the acts of their forefathers/mothers.

I am not sure If I am asking for responses, as much as I am suggesting...THINK! Just think before you post.  Maybe, just maybe, your opinions aren't the pinnacle for all to believe and follow. 

I would LOVE to really engage in a good discussion about ethnicity and inclusion, but it appears that those who are antithetical to these concepts crowd this space.

Free up.  Go elsewhere.  Let those who really care have some space to read and share without feeling harassed, dismissed, or insulted by your lack of self monitoring.

I am not sure if others have ever felt this way, but I really needed to say something about this before I exploded.

Thanks for the space!

[larryc]

Gamut. Run the gamut.

[red_queen]

Yes, but this is part and parcel of an online forum. And diversity is, as you note, a hot-button issue for many forumites.

In any event, I'm not convinced that a separate 'Diversity Forum' is particularly useful. It lumps diversity issues into one corner when these issues are manifold and can relate to so many other areas of the fora. As I see it, it marginalizes rather than integrates discussions of diversity. 

[panache]

As a "non-minority" American, I too would love to engage in a good discussion about ethnicity and inclusion. I believe that reluctance to honestly and openly discuss and seriously consider conflicting viewpoints is detrimental to our society in so many ways. I have conflicted opinions, but am often reluctant to discuss them openly due to backlash. This equally applies to other major issues in our society.  There are many posters who love to stir up anger, but I just ignore them and "talk" with the others who I believe want to be heard and agree to listen to my viewpoint, too. We all have limited perspectives, including you and me. I do disagree with some of your comments, but I do so respectfully.

[acrimone]

I am always willing to engage in a good discussion about ethnicity and inclusion.

Unfortunately, I find that most of the people who say that this is what they want are actually wanting to hear the subtle variations of their own personal echo chambers.

Let's take the following sentence:

So many perspectives, with little regard to the holistic lives of any non-white ethnic group in this country. 

Right off the bat we see that sheinthespirit wants to have a good discussion about ethnicity and inclusion, but only within certain limits.  So many perspectives!  But instead of mastering her anger, she dismisses that wide diversity of perspectives by saying that they have little regard for the holistic lives (whatever that means) of any non-white ethnic group in the United States (presumably).

So we get this:

I would LOVE to really engage in a good discussion about ethnicity and inclusion, but it appears that those who are antithetical to these concepts crowd this space.

A bald confession that what is wanted isn't a discussion about ethnicity and inclusion per se, but a good discussion between those who support a particular viewpoint on these topics.

In true diversity-police fashion, the proper response is not to engage in discussions which one might find uncomfortable, and where one's lack of emotional maturity results in nearly "exploding", but rather to simply cut off the debate:

Free up.  Go elsewhere.  Let those who really care have some space to read and share without feeling harassed, dismissed, or insulted by your lack of self monitoring.

To which I can only reply...

Grow up.  Stay here.  Have some self-respect, some confidence, and try very hard not to think that just because I might disagree with you (which while I don't actually know, I reasonably suspect to be the case) that I am somehow not "monitoring" what I'm saying or thinking through the effects of my words.

[scheherazade]

Acrimone, you said it very well.  I have little to add, except I'd like to note the ironic juxtaposition of demanding inclusion and then telling those one don't want to hear to get lost.  Apparently those who want inclusion like to set up their own private clubs, as well.

[onestep]

I bite my tongue on the diversity forum all the time because I work on issues related to power and social marginalization professionally.  I like to come to the forums to get away from all that. 

What strikes me is that there are two issues.  First, there is the general discussion about ethnicity and inclusion.  That would, by necessity and definition, be inclusive of all of our experiences.  It would also require frank and painful recognition of our varying degrees of power as individuals and and as members of social groups.  It would also require a willingness to be wrong and an agreement that even if one is mad at others in the moment, we will all make a pact to leave the room on good terms.

Second, there is a desire by the OP to have a safe place to talk about issues of diversity relevant to his/her situation.  We are all at varying places in terms of our growth and needs.  At times, we need to be in the company of similar people because there are things we need to process with others who have had our experiences.   IMHO, at the heart of that process is the need to have one's prior experiences of marginalization validated and to have a place for healing.

So, it would be helpful during discussions on diversity (multiculturalism, power, colonization, etc.) to be aware of these multiple reasons for having such a conversation.

[voxprincipalis]

Second, there is a desire by the OP to have a safe place to talk about issues of diversity relevant to his/her situation.  We are all at varying places in terms of our growth and needs.  At times, we need to be in the company of similar people because there are things we need to process with others who have had our experiences.   IMHO, at the heart of that process is the need to have one's prior experiences of marginalization validated and to have a place for healing.

This is certainly valid. However, it is worth remembering that since one can't control who responds to one's posts, there is no guarantee that this is, or ever will be, a "safe place" for anyone to talk about anything.

If a "safe place" is what is wanted, then people ought to take those conversations to places where such an environment is much more likely -- private email exchanges, on- or off-line discussion groups of confirmed like-minded people, personal conversations with friends/family/etc. For those reasons, I rarely discuss issues of any personal importance here. It is not the right venue.

Of course, a theoretical OP could try to start such a discussion here, but then it would be unreasonable to be upset because the responses received were not what that OP had in mind. Be aware of the nature of the environment and the utter lack of guarantees about the tenor of any conversation that might ensue. If you are comfortable with those risks, post away, but don't waste energy being inflamed by what you read in return. If that's not OK, then this may not be the best place for that kind of conversation.

VP

[locutus]

In any event, I'm not convinced that a separate 'Diversity Forum' is particularly useful. It lumps diversity issues into one corner when these issues are manifold and can relate to so many other areas of the fora. As I see it, it marginalizes rather than integrates discussions of diversity.

I agree with this very much.

OP, the Diversity forum is not always going to be full of do-gooders who agree with you about the issues. Or even that the issues ARE issues. I don't know what to tell you.

[allbutfoundajob]

I would LOVE to really engage in a good discussion about ethnicity and inclusion, but it appears that those who are antithetical to these concepts crowd this space.

Free up.  Go elsewhere.  Let those who really care have some space to read and share without feeling harassed, dismissed, or insulted by your lack of self monitoring.

This seems to encapsulate the typical view of the "desired" diversity on college campuses.  Colleges welcome diversity of skin color, national origin, etc, but if you have an opinion that is not of the typical liberal variety, GO AWAY.

[kilpikonna]

THINK! Just think before you post.  Maybe, just maybe, your opinions aren't the pinnacle for all to believe and follow. 

Do a person's thoughts really have to be "the pinnacle for all to believe and follow" for them to be worth a little air-time?  Jeez, I hope not, or else I'll never publish anything.

[dr_stones]

Maybe we an get the "Piece Police" from The Puzzle Place to come in and restore order and civility to the Diversity forum.  They can tame the tongues of all those blond-haired white people who foment hate and defy the preferred order of positive multiculturism and tolerance.

The Irish need not apply.

[acrimone]

Maybe we an get the "Piece Police" from The Puzzle Place to come in and restore order and civility to the Diversity forum.  They can tame the tongues of all those blond-haired white people who foment hate and defy the preferred order of positive multiculturism and tolerance.

Yeah, but what are they going to do to me?  The diversity-philes are sworn to protect me.

[mountain_ivy]

New prez; hired because of race.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it.  Previous prez of different minority status was internal hire and Board said, OK, next time we'll do race.  They did.  Previous prez followed white male. 

I'm essentially identical to previous prez; thought said person did good job externally but started us on the road to ruin internally. .  Said so, loudly. No one cared as prez and I were the same age, race, gender.....different hair color.

New prez even more clueless, hurtling us down ruinous paths.  I happened to point that out and was excoriated:  difference in race the issue. 

My position has always been that incompetent individuals of the non-majority are as equally entitled to be hired as those incompetents of the majority used to be hired before anyone of the non-majority. 

I'm equally entitled to bi*ch about it. 

[sockgumbee]

They can tame the tongues of all those blond-haired white people who foment hate and defy the preferred order of positive multiculturism and tolerance.

Yeah, but what are they going to do to me?  The diversity-philes are sworn to protect me.

Bleach Acrimone! Michael Jackson had no problem becoming white although he chose to keep his straightened hair dark. I'm sure bleach could make you white skinned and blond in no time.

My position has always been that incompetent individuals of the non-majority are as equally entitled to be hired as those incompetents of the majority used to be hired before anyone of the non-majority. 

I'm equally entitled to bi*ch about it. 

YES! it's so tiring to hear people moan about hired minority folks who are not as qualified as the wonderful white person who was passed over, as if every white person ever hired was stellar. (if they were all so stellar my life would be a lot easier).