next »

[abigator]

When at a campus interview, and you are asked how much start up you would need, how do you answer the question?  Is it similar to when you're asked about salary in that you don't want to suggest a number before they do?  How does that work?  Also, is there any way to get an indication of how much startup an institution generally gives?

[bigsky]

Determine what their expectations are for tenure. Find out what is already in place (shared equipment for example) then figure out what you need to attain that level of productivity and be happy. There is your figure. I actually put together more than one start up list depending on the school and research expectations. Bring something with you to the interview.

In my experience there are usually some guidelines within which to work. Ask.

[onestep]

If it's during the interview, I would put that question off until you have an actual job offer.  I'd tell them, "I'd be happy to talk about the specifics on startup funds during the time we begin our discussions about my possible appointment here."  If they press you, I'd say some general things about what you'd need to get your work done but not talk dollars. 

One way to get a feel for dollars is during your second interview (i.e. the one where you already have the job offer), where you can ask the new faculty what support they received from the university, what gear is already available, and whether they feel adequately supported.  If you feel bold and the moment is right, you might also ask them for advice on what would be a good bargaining range.  This is a "comfort zone" issue and I did it only a few times, but it yielded really good info.  Also, you might ask your current department chair and mentors what they feel might be a good range for someone in your position.  Finally, I second bigsky's point about finding out the expectations for tenure.

[dogvomit]

I have been asked this at every job interview I have been at.  I think it is as inappropriate for a search committee to ask about start up costs as it is for me to ask about the salary. 

My favorite is the "so how much will it take for you to get your research going?" 

To be fair, if they are going to ask a question like this, they should state...

we have a limited start up account.  It is generally only around $XXX, do you think you could get going with that ballpark figure?

Of course they seem never to do this. 
Recently, I interviewed at a pretty good school and they had their minutes on the web.  I had read these and found that the college only had about $60K available to split between 3 new professors.  Of course, when I got there the departmental faculty kept telling me that a typical startup is in the $80K ballpark.  When I got to the Dean he proceeded to ask how much it would cost to get me.  I replied, "the faculty informed me of the average startup package and it would be sufficient for my needs." 

I don't know if this was the right thing to say or not, but I certainly would use it again if in a similar situation.  to set the record strait, I would have been happy with the $60K split between three faculty but thrilled with $80K.  Of course, they never asked a strait question and they didn't get a strait answer.  If they asked what they really wanted to know, "will 20-25K be enough to start" i would have said yes.  Afterall, I wanted to work there.  However, its there loss more than mine! :)

good luck! :)

[jackit]

They can ask any damn thing they want, and some of them might want to know how much you are going to cost to be successful.

Follow bigsky's advice -- and do as much homework ahead of time as possible.  On the one hand you want to answer that important question when asked -- giving a blank stare, as though thoughts of a startup package are weird, will not benefit you.  On the other hand, you don't want to give a number that is completely out of the ballgame.  A suitable answer would be to briefly list your key items, and then say 'the final sum depends on things like the institutional salary structure for grad students and technicians, so I'll have to have more information to complete the estimate.'  No one could fault you for that.

Good luck!

- Jack 

[stapler]

Depending on your field, a rough start-up range may very well be suggested to you during your visit.  If not, you can always ask your potential colleagues what they themselves were given when they were first hired.  Unless there are special circumstances that merit extra sensitivity, I don't see this as subject to dance too much around: if you rely on lots of equipment, for example, you need to know if they can support your research, and they need to know how much you're going to cost to bring in.

If you're in a discipline that relies on big-ticket items, you might want to consider putting together several different annotated budgets (corresponding to bare minimum, desired, and maximum funding situations).  Whenever I've interviewed, departmental people have always gravitated toward the maximum funding, but in those cases the money was always coming from outside the department.

Many subtle aspects of this issue are surely discipline-dependent.  Specific budgets were always expected of me on my initial interviews, but then my field is fairly reliant on medium-ticket and big-ticket items (six or more figures).

[dogvomit]

They can ask any damn thing they want, and some of them might want to know how much you are going to cost to be successful.

Follow bigsky's advice -- and do as much homework ahead of time as possible.  On the one hand you want to answer that important question when asked -- giving a blank stare, as though thoughts of a startup package are weird, will not benefit you.  On the other hand, you don't want to give a number that is completely out of the ballgame.  A suitable answer would be to briefly list your key items, and then say 'the final sum depends on things like the institutional salary structure for grad students and technicians, so I'll have to have more information to complete the estimate.'  No one could fault you for that.

Good luck!

- Jack 

Just because someone can "Ask anything that they damn well want" doesn't mean that they should.  There is only one reason that a school would ask how much you need when their quesion is really "will what we can offer be enough" and that is that they are trying to get off cheap.  It tells you something about the school. 

When I interviewed at the University of Illinois they right out stated what the cost would be.  Texas State was the same way so were several of the smaller regional schools.  It is downright stupid to ask a candidate how much they need unless you know you have a fairly deep wallet.  Some schools do.  I have interviewed at three schools in which the startup question was asked and I knew they simply didn't have the cash to even buy a simple cheap $5,000 item.  In one case, this would not have mattered to me at all.   

Ask anything you want as a search committee member, be rude, uncaring or devious.  WHo cares.  As they say on these forums, we are interviewing the schools too.  If people are difficult, dishonest, or if they talk around answers you can be guaranteed that when you step on that campus they will be less reserved and more difficult in nearly everything you work with them.  I have been on several search committees and I make it a point to always be strait forward and address issues with candor.  Maybe my way isn't the best way but it is how I feel comfortable doing things.  I like to sleep at night.

[dr_strangelove]

I have to disagree with dogvomit; there are good reasons for search committees to ask candidates to submit a buget for startup. In my department, we don't ask for this at the interview stage; nobody even gets to the interview stage without submitting an itemized budget. (I'm speaking from the perspective of someone in a teaching-oriented physics department. Over the last few searches, startup funds in our department have ranged from about $15,000 to about $75,000, based on the needs of the incoming faculty member.)

The first is that the startup budget often tells you something about the candidate and how ready he or she is to actually set up a lab. It also tells you in some detail what he or she will actually do. (You'd might be surprised at how often a person's startup budget raises questions about something the candidate wrote in his or her research proposal.) Some candidates do hurt themselves with the budget they submit, but "too high" is not the only way this happens (it's not even the most common, though the person who submitted a $900,000 startup budget during our last search didn't help himself).

The second is that, at least at my school, the startup budget isn't fixed, and is itself a matter of negotiation between the department and the dean. Having an itemized budget from the candidate makes it much easier for us to negotiate with the dean and to get more money for our new faculty out of the college's budget.

Some candidates submit what are essentially multiple budgets, saying, "With $X, I can do this, but if I had $Y, I could do a lot more."

[bigsky]

It also depends on what they lump into "startup." Several years ago at my current job I was given 30k to spend on research equipment/supplies (biological sciences). My calculated startup costs exceeded 50k. I did visit a second time before accepting the position and was able to look at the lab I was inheriting (including equipment and supplies in place), materials accessible for no charge in the stockroom, shared equipment available to me, etc. It turned out that the 30k went well beyond my 50k estimate when all things were considered. Also not included in startup costs were 1 year grad student support, 1 month summer salary, office computer and teaching relase.

So, while my startup was 30k I really started with several times that. It all depends on what exactly is considered startup costs, YMMV.

[abigator]

Thanks for all the responses.  They had asked me to come to the interview with an idea of how much I would need for startup, so I put together a list of equipment.  It ended up that they never asked for the list, just a general idea of what I would need, and told me it would be "no problem".  Now I just have to wait and see if I get an offer!

[dogvomit]

there is a difference between asking for a submitted budget ahead of time and asking hazy questions about startups when you are in an interview.  These aren't the same things.  In your case, you are providing the candidate an opportunity to provide a well thought out set budget with clear indications of rankings for critical, essential, desired, and superfluous needs. 

This is not the same as having an interviewer ask a candidate to list off all and every piece of equipment and quantities of supplies they will or may need during what is essentially a 15 minute interview and without any guidance on what is or is not excessive.  Having interviewed at schools with available startups ranging form zero to 100,000 it makes me suspicious of this activity.  In fact, it smells a bit underhanded and is a solid indicator of how the school operates as a whole. 

If you really want to know if a candidate knows how to plan and operate then you should ask for a copy of a grant proposal (funded or not).   Also, look at their CV and talk to their references.  How about asking the candidate a direct question like, "If you had unlimited funds how would you set up your lab, and if you had very limited funds then how would you set yourself up for success?"  Such a question would do a better job of answering the question that you suggest asking for a budget is supposed to obtain.  In fact, it is a more honest approach to it as well.