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[king_ghidorah]

Is there another way to evaluate students?  I know Oberlin writes letters and I've heard tell Evergreen does too.  Clearly this is not possible for the state schools, even the Div III ones, or even most SLACs given any number of factors.

All students seem to care about is the grade, the actual learning is dispensable.  I sometimes think I could comment on student papers: “Clearly you are psychotic and should be behind bars.  You write like an intoxicated 2nd grader and your parents are probably mutants.  But here’s your ‘A’” and all they’ll see is the “A,” no more thought or effort needed.  Conversely, if I comment: “You have good ideas and nice style.  I learned a great deal from your paper.  However, you might think about supporting your ideas more.  Here’s your ‘B’,” the first question I’ll get is “Can I revise this for an ‘A’?”  Sometimes anything below an “A” appears disturbing or even mildly devastating.  In other words, students are so entirely focused on grades (for obvious commercial reasons) that I think they have never learned to like or want learning.

What if we reported pure numerical grades – say, “89” for a “B+”, “92” for an “A-“ etc.  This would be far more accurate reportage anyway.

Just a random thought…

[finallyfullprof]

Our high schools in this state already do this (numerical reporting). I can't see that it's made any difference in the quality of either the teaching or learning experience because everything is still ultimately tied to standardized test scores in high school and GPA in college.

[daurousseau]

Don't know if it's this way anymore, but when I studied in Germany the system was you paid for lectures, signed in at the first and last lectures, and took a leaving exam at the end of your studies to graduate, pass or fail. (Grad students also had to publish a book for the doctorate.)

Great idea. Let everyone who wants to, go to college, listen to whatever lectures appeal to them, and stand for a leaving exam if they want credentials. Any teacher who wanted to assign papers or exams just for the experience would be welcome to do so, but that would be between the student and the teacher with no record kept.

[lindakrzy]

It seems to me that with all the current emphasis on assurance of learning coming from accrediting bodies, accountability for learning on college campuses is increasing, not decreasing.  But this can take the form of portfolios, graduation exams - lots of stuff that might not be tied to the graded items on one's syllabus.

My school is quite active in assurance of learning - are others?

[caeprylo]

Bennington College will only give a student a grade if they ask for it.  I understand that in the end, their transcripts give a great picture of what kind of a person, thinker, and worker the student is because each prof has written a descriptive summary of their work in the class.  This seems so much more valuable to me.  I understand that at the k-12 level some classes are using portfolio reviews as a way to judge a student's learning in a course--likely this will need to be translated into a grade at some point though.  Holistic grading, while not as easy, quick, or neat, is really a great thing.  Realistic for all, probably not.

[dismalist]

Many good ideas here. My point would be that not every institution should be expected to adopt the same method. Let there be Bennigtons, Germanys and portfolios. We'd eventually see what works best, and for whom.

[polly_mer]

The problem that I see with the holistic "everyone gets an essay or portfolio" approach is a lack of means to do a quick "yes", "no", "maybe" sort on a couple thousand applicants for coveted positions.

I'm not a huge fan of reducing people to numbers, but in many cases, a quick sort by GPA and test scores reduces the pile from everyone to something manageable like 100 people who can then get a more nuanced treatment.  Is a 4.0 from small school X more valuable than a 3.8 from Ivy League Y?  Depends.  But both probably beat the pants off a 2.4 from Unknown U.

[dismalist]

Then those won't be chosen for some jobs or graduate shcool programs, will they? But they will for others. Everybody just sorts him/herself! ;-)

[dntw8up]

Is there another way to evaluate students?  I know Oberlin writes letters and I've heard tell Evergreen does too.  Clearly this is not possible for the state schools, even the Div III ones, or even most SLACs given any number of factors..."

I know this thread is old, but the following is worth noting:

New College of Florida is a "state school," designated the residential liberal arts honors college of the State University System of Florida. New College, does not assign grades or credit hours. Achievement is recorded for satisfactory completion of courses, labs, tutorials, and projects undertaken with faculty approval. Narrative evaluations provide constructive feedback on students' work, and guide students rather than ranking/rating them -- even very strong performances elicit “critical” comments intended to help the student improve. Evaluations are not intended as substitutes for grades, are never converted to grades, and are never attachments to the official transcript. Only a student can provide his/her evaluations to persons outside New College.

Among public institutions. New College is second only to UMich in the percentage of students admitted to top graduate programs in medicine, business and law; the college is also a top producer of U.S. Fulbright students with the 8th highest number of Fulbright scholars among liberal arts colleges, according to the Institute of International Education's report in Oct. 29, 2010 edition of The Chronicle of Higher Education.

Grades are convenient for institutional administration, but provide no real benefit to students and arguably undermine teaching and learning.

[untenured]

Are you sure the comments are not substitute for grades?  The law school of Northeastern University, for example, prides itself on the non-grade system.  They'd make all the arguments you did about its benefits.  Yet, informally, faculty and students (and I assume employers) know that there are certain key words that establish grade equivalents.  If the professor calls the student "good", that's a B.  "Very good" is a B+.  "Excellent" is an A.  That sort of thing.  I'm told that the non-grade system informally devolved into grades.

[khouloud_khammassi]

I am from Tunisia and did all my pregraduate studies there. So, I share some of my experience with you:

When I first started elementary school, we used to receive "grades" as "excellent, very good, good, average, and poor". Then things turned into grading on a scale of 20. Getting 12/20 and above is be considered a satisfactory performance (with the passing grade is always 10/20)".
Throughout my relatively short training to become a teacher I have encountered incidents where students failed themselves to repeat the year only to get the scores that would qualify them for the college they want to join (usually Med School). Often times, those students have through some mishaps that would unfaithfully reflect their distinguished previous performance. So, their choice is to miss out on a year rather than an entire career.
I am always uncomfortable with grading as I prefer the pass/fail option. However, it seems that with mass schooling, numbers seem to fit most.

[samspade]

Isn't that the wet dream of assessment people? All I heard from these smug assessment consultants was grades don't accurately assess student learning. They would you prefer you give students grades based on effort, like kindergarten.

[penultimate24]

I LOVE the idea of no grades. I have tried many models (rubrics, holistic, contract) and at one point, even tried to base most of my assessment on participation in the class. The issue...nobody did the work because, as one student announced, "we aren't graded on it, so it doesn't matter." Hence, bad participation, hence, the whole thing fell apart.

So, until the students mature into "wanting to work" for enrichment--we probably need grades or some fairly stern assessment tools in place to gauge the wheat from the chaff....

(unfortunately....)

[tookt]

Don't know if it's this way anymore, but when I studied in Germany the system was you paid for lectures, signed in at the first and last lectures, and took a leaving exam at the end of your studies to graduate, pass or fail. (Grad students also had to publish a book for the doctorate.)

Great idea. Let everyone who wants to, go to college, listen to whatever lectures appeal to them, and stand for a leaving exam if they want credentials. Any teacher who wanted to assign papers or exams just for the experience would be welcome to do so, but that would be between the student and the teacher with no record kept.

I have advocated for this approach for years!