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[pemfir]

Hello Everyone,
I do greatly appreciate your comments and ideas
In brief I am an engineering major who is applying to engineering grad school 

I just took the GRE
Q = 800
V = 490
Writing = do not have it yet i guess around 4
GPA = 4.0

How much do you think my low Vebral score on the GRE would affect my application for top ranked universities (as you might have noticed i have a very good GPA).
In worst scenario would i still be considered if my verbal score does not meet the requirements of some schools.
For example, one school requires 1300 for Q + V on the GRE and mine adds up to 1290 !

[helpful]

Yes, calling it Gard school puts your Verbal Score clearly!

[scheherazade]

Pemfir, if there is a minimum GRE score, you will likely not be considered.  Those applications are usually sorted out of the pile in the Graduate School and not sent to the department for consideration.  However, that's not always the case.  Are you an international student?  Schools often cut slack for internationals who do not have English as a first language, providing their TOEFL score is decent.  Also, for engineering, the verbal isn't nearly as important as your quant (verbal is looked at more closely in the humanities and social sciences).

Your best bet would be to call the grad schools and discuss this with them individually.  However, if you've already applied, let it go.  There's not much you can do at this point. If you are not admitted to grad school, work on your language skills over the next year and retake.  Barron's has an excellent vocab section in their prep book.  Also, read papers like The Wall Street Journal and journals in your field frequently, as well as literature, to better your language skills.

Good luck!

[sunnyday]

If your score is below the required total, then I would think that might cause problems.  Is this your first time taking the GRE?  Could you consider taking it again after studying or taking a GRE course?

[mozman]

Engineering programs (the good ones) don't give a damn about the GRE verbal.  The 800 quantitative score, plus your 4.0 GPA will put you in the "yes" pile assuming you are coming from a halfway decent undergrad program.

Don't sweat it.

mm

[sunny_side_up]

Engineers need verbal skills?? Who knew!!! You wouldn't know it from talking to most of the people in our program.

[dr_stones]

Engineers need verbal skills?? Who knew!!! You wouldn't know it from talking to most of the people in our program.

I think that's the problem, for all of us who have to communicate with engineers.

Gard School? Isn't that in Via Domitia?

[helpful]

I know several engineering programs that require students to pass writing classes in order to graduate.

[dept_geek]

I know several engineering programs that require students to pass writing classes in order to graduate.

Many u/g programs have at least freshman english & a technical writing course as part of the core. Both courses are scheduled in the first year. This means that many engineering students can go three years without having to rigorously study reading and writing. By the time they take the GRE, the verbal part is very challenging simply because the student is out of practice.

Engineers need verbal skills?? Who knew!!! You wouldn't know it from talking to most of the people in our program.

And... as much as non-engineers laugh at engineers for (lack of) their verbal skills, engineers laugh at non-engineers for their inability to do complex math & computing. The skill sets eventually even out.

[polly_mer]

As others have said, the verbal scores on the GRE are probably the least important qualifications to get into an engineering graduate program and foreign students with minimal English skills are routinely admitted.

However, we generally expect native English speakers to have reasonable abilities.  Engineers write a lot of reports.  Your writing doesn't have to sing, but you need to be able to write logically constructed papers in standard formal English.  Make your essay be the very best it can possibly be.  A poor essay will torpedo your application unless you have something like a patent or several papers to your credit.

A 490 is not a very good score.  If the school has an absolute "minimum score of X" requirement, you've disqualified yourself and your only choice is to retake the exam and do better.  If X score is only a suggestion and you can demonstrate being a very strong candidate in all other areas missing only by "that much", then you will be in good shape.

Now, what are your other qualifications?  A quantitative score of 800 is good, but you're an engineer.  Anything less than 750 would be embarrassing.  A 4.0 GPA is good, but what about internships, undergraduate research, and activities with various engineering societies and clubs?  How strong will your letters of recommendation be?  How highly ranked was your undergraduate program?

Test scores and grades are only a small part of the picture.  You need to have them in place to get into a good program, but if you don't have any of the activities beyond classes that we associate with the "Of course, I'm an engineer.  Did you really need to ask?",  you have much bigger problems than a low test score on a secondary topic.

[pemfir]

Most application follow a very similar format

General information
Academic & Work Background
GPA and Test Scores
Personal Statement (usually limited to around 450 words)
Reference letters

The only part of the application that someone can mention participation in various engineering societies and clubs, etc .. is within the personal statement. Considering that most people have a lot to say beside extra curriculum activities in the personal statement, like their research interest, and why they like a particular graduate program, how can it become the most important part of the application ?!

Just reading through the comments, I can find so many contradictory statements. Some say GRE is the most important factor, others say GPA is essential, everyone express a different opine. Here is my personal opine: I think GRE is a ridiculous exam, because there is no way you can assess one's English abilities through 30 questions in 30 minutes. You can answer 16 questions correctly in the exam and end up with a 470 or 530 ... the standard deviation is huge which makes this test even more unfair. I have tried hard for 4 years to maintain a 4.0 GPA and now a 2-hour-long exam has become my biggest challenge!   

I am not a native English speaker that's why the verbal section is so difficult for me.

[polly_mer]

Most application follow a very similar format

General information
Academic & Work Background
GPA and Test Scores
Personal Statement (usually limited to around 450 words)
Reference letters

The only part of the application that someone can mention participation in various engineering societies and clubs, etc .. is within the personal statement. Considering that most people have a lot to say beside extra curriculum activities in the personal statement, like their research interest, and why they like a particular graduate program, how can it become the most important part of the application ?!

I understand your frustration and I hate to be the one who tells you this, but GPA and test scores are primarily a screening mechanism.  Yes, you need to be at a respectable level, but a person who has a 3.8 GPA and a 750 Quantitative with summer interships and a couple of presentations at Society of X students national meetings will be a stronger candidate than someone who has a 4.0 and an 800 with no experience.

Your personal statement should be a selling spiel about what a great candidate you are based on your experience.  What are you putting in your personal statement if not things like

"During my internship with X Company, I became interested in Research Area Y" with a big paragraph on what you have done in Y and how you will continue your research in Y at this school.

"During my junior year, I worked on the Big Project with Club Q and found that ..." with a big paragraph relating how this has motivated you to continue your education on related topics and why you are a good fit for this particular program.


Why wouldn't you include entries in work history for the internships you held, undergraduate research experiences, and the offices in various relevant clubs?  Yes, if all you did was attend meetings, don't include it.  If you spent your senior year arranging for speakers and organizing field trips for the local chapter of the Society of Z Engineering Students, put that in somewhere.  Most applications have a spot for publications and such, put in your presentations at the annual national meeting or also put those in the work history section.

In addition, your references must be able to say much more than "Pemfir is a hard worker who got an A in my class".  That's a given and will be ignored as standard boilerplate.  Those references should be writing about your other qualifications and particularly your research abilities.  Graduate school is not about grades, it's about training for research and becoming a professional.  Why should this program invest time and money in you?  People who can demonstrate that they have already done many of the expected preliminary activities have a huge advantage over people who just did the minimum.  I know that the effort required to get good grades feels like doing more than the minimum, but the bar goes up when you get to graduate school and you need to jump higher.

Likewise, the GRE is just one test, but it's a hoop that you must either get through or otherwise get past in one of the standard approved methods.  Failure to come to terms with that idea means that graduate school is not for you because this is just the first of many ridiculous and not-so-ridiculous challenges that you will need to overcome.

Good luck!