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Author Topic: academic fashion  (Read 28655 times)
holyhush
turtle-rific
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Posts: 144


« Reply #135 on: December 23, 2007, 07:02:02 PM »

Thank you historian for your well thought out analysis.

I think it was a valuable analysis, yes.  But I also think that it does not really support anything you've said thus far. 
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"All the thoughts of a turtle are turtle."  -Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1862
historian
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Posts: 824


« Reply #136 on: December 23, 2007, 07:27:14 PM »

Thank you historian for your well thought out analysis.

I think it was a valuable analysis, yes.  But I also think that it does not really support anything you've said thus far. 

Well, I wasn’t making a comprehensive philosophical argument on *fashion* per se, but responding to various posts.   Looking back over the thread briefly I see that I took some to task for mixing up arguments about filthy, slovenly attire vs. “fashionable” attire and equating them,  wondered why *fashionable* was so important that “clean , neat mended” wasn’t enough, slammed that stupid linked article full of vapid anonymous people “lamenting” their peers for preferring practicality at work over aesthetics, slammed a former colleague for wearing costumes while teaching,  called BS on some of the claims about visual psychology that didn’t take context into account, and, I see, plumped for “neutrals” as being practical conference wear---while, also making the point no one had:  the assumption how I or anyone else dresses for work determines how they dress everywhere.

But, whiling away the afternoon, I thought about who I see (and have seen in two careers) and how clothing played into their professional persona.  I don’t know if it “supports” random responses to the points made in the thread at a given moment. At best you can say is that the thread made me *think* a bit more about some categories of Goffian “presentation of self” vis a vis clothing. At worst, it’s a response to what I read right before I posted it. 

Obviously, I’m a denizen of category 2---subconsciously picking up the local norm and adapting as appropriate within personal interests and background and only noticing the appearance of my colleagues when they have wandered far, far off the rails.

When they do that, frankly, I usually laugh.
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alshealy: "Nothing says 'retreating from society' like learning to play the banjo."
anywho
Senior member
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Posts: 250


« Reply #137 on: December 24, 2007, 12:14:34 AM »

Very few, if any, see fashion as a legitimate art form that has contribute to cultural or gender history.

Um, no.  I seriously doubt that anyone considers fashion as an art form except for those people looking to make a buck selling us junk.  At least, I haven't heard of any overview classes in art history including a specific section on fashion.

Believe it. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/cost/hd_cost.htm
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big_giant_head
Possible nun-shoe wearing
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Posts: 3,292


« Reply #138 on: December 24, 2007, 10:59:14 AM »

Thank you historian for your well thought out analysis.

I think it was a valuable analysis, yes.  But I also think that it does not really support anything you've said thus far. 

Well, I wasn’t making a comprehensive philosophical argument on *fashion* per se, but responding to various posts.   Looking back over the thread briefly I see that I took some to task for mixing up arguments about filthy, slovenly attire vs. “fashionable” attire and equating them,  wondered why *fashionable* was so important that “clean , neat mended” wasn’t enough, slammed that stupid linked article full of vapid anonymous people “lamenting” their peers for preferring practicality at work over aesthetics, slammed a former colleague for wearing costumes while teaching,  called BS on some of the claims about visual psychology that didn’t take context into account, and, I see, plumped for “neutrals” as being practical conference wear---while, also making the point no one had:  the assumption how I or anyone else dresses for work determines how they dress everywhere.

But, whiling away the afternoon, I thought about who I see (and have seen in two careers) and how clothing played into their professional persona.  I don’t know if it “supports” random responses to the points made in the thread at a given moment. At best you can say is that the thread made me *think* a bit more about some categories of Goffian “presentation of self” vis a vis clothing. At worst, it’s a response to what I read right before I posted it. 

Obviously, I’m a denizen of category 2---subconsciously picking up the local norm and adapting as appropriate within personal interests and background and only noticing the appearance of my colleagues when they have wandered far, far off the rails.

When they do that, frankly, I usually laugh.


I like you, Historian.  And not just because you can travel through time.
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carthago can haz delenda
dr_prephd
Distinguished Senior Member
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Posts: 4,408


« Reply #139 on: December 25, 2007, 10:06:28 AM »

Aren't the ethical implications of clothing as important as the aesthetic? While appearance isn't a major concern for me (beyond
clean, reasonably modest, not too outre), I am concerned about
some of the larger moral issues:


- What about the people who manufacture the clothing (sweat shops)?


You mean there are actually clothes that aren't made in sweat shops? I keep looking for the ILGWA label...

I have a coat that is at least 40 years old, that I bought at a thrift shop. Black wool, classic cut. It has the ILGWU label. I paid $10 for it. It is the only time I've ever seen the label, and, in fact, I assumed it was almost an anachronism. If anybody can point out clothing that currently carries the label, I'd be very interested.
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Prephd, in all that black, you are like the anti-pink-me.

Freewill is a beeyaaatch
2nd_career
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There is no cuisine without cream and eggs.


« Reply #140 on: December 26, 2007, 10:03:44 AM »

The garment workers union's have pretty much evaporated since the late 60's peak and collapsed (with a number of others) into UNITE HERE.

UNITE HERE's website lists some companies that employ their members:

http://www.unitehere.org/about/

So there should be some union made clothing still out there.
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dr_prephd
Distinguished Senior Member
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Posts: 4,408


« Reply #141 on: December 26, 2007, 12:18:55 PM »

Levi's and Liz Claiborne are on the list. Good to know. So is Brooks Brothers, but I'd say that's a little out of my league.
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Prephd, in all that black, you are like the anti-pink-me.

Freewill is a beeyaaatch
prytania3
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Posts: 37,250

Prytania, the Foracle


« Reply #142 on: December 27, 2007, 07:08:03 PM »

Aren't the ethical implications of clothing as important as the aesthetic? While appearance isn't a major concern for me (beyond
clean, reasonably modest, not too outre), I am concerned about
some of the larger moral issues:


- What about the people who manufacture the clothing (sweat shops)?


Check that label. Is it ILGWA or ILGWU? I always remember it as ILGWA (International Ladies' Garment Workers Association) as opposed to ILGWU--the U standing for union. But my memory is hazy so I could be wrong. At any rate, those tags used to be in all high quality clothes and most of the low quality ones, as well.

My son has a lot of Brooks Brothers shirts. I feel so patriotic.



You mean there are actually clothes that aren't made in sweat shops? I keep looking for the ILGWA label...

I have a coat that is at least 40 years old, that I bought at a thrift shop. Black wool, classic cut. It has the ILGWU label. I paid $10 for it. It is the only time I've ever seen the label, and, in fact, I assumed it was almost an anachronism. If anybody can point out clothing that currently carries the label, I'd be very interested.
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Clowns, I tell you. Clowns.
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