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[anxiousgradstudent]

My dream after I get a phd is to get a tenure track job in western Australia. I am from the US. What do you all think my odds are of landing a job out there? Any suggestions you have to help me achieve this dream. I'd also be really interested in teaching western Canada.

[dundee]

The odds are pretty slim, unfortunately. Both Australia and Canada have very few universities compared to the U.S. - I think Australia has about 40 altogether, so there are far fewer openings. Then when there is an opening in Australia, not only are many candidates applying from Australia and New Zealand, but also loads of Australian expatriates looking to return home, plus all the people from around the world who think Australia would be a great place to live. Pretty much the same situation applies in Canada. All the Canadian and Australian academics in the U.S. aren't necessarily here because they love the U.S.

[sandrino]

Anxiousgradstudent, I don't think dundee is quite right in saying the chances are especially slim to get a position in Western Australia or western Canada, or at least not slimmer than any other specific locations. It's always difficult to get a job in a specific location, but not more so in those two locations - Vancouver and Perth house prices frighten away some of the competition, as well. There are five universities in and around Perth, and because I'm familiar with UWA and Murdoch, I know that there are quite a few Americans working in those two unis. Of course, as always, being a top-notch candidate always helps your chances in controlling where you get a job.

Western Canada has quite a number of large universities - at least five in BC and Alberta, and there are lots of jobs going to Americans at UBC, SFU, UVic, U of A, U of C.  There is a hiring freeze at UBC right now, but I see lots of job ads at the other four universities.

So don't give up hope - your chances could be pretty good if you have a strong record.

[larryc]

I think this will also have a lot to do with your field. Someone once observed that the humanities are over-represented int this forum and I think that is true. The result may be that we shape most of our job advice with an eye to the culture of scarcity that we know.

But if you are in accounting, like our dear friend Case Insensitive, search committees show up your door with big bags of cash and cocaine.

So what is your field?

[tom74]

If you want western australia you're screwed - because there is no tenure in Australia

[sandrino]

tom74 - what an odd thing to say. There's no de facto "tenure" in quite a few places in the world, including the UK, but one is hardly "screwed" if one gets a job there. The tenure-track model of academia isn't the only model that works, and many countries use different models to recruit/retain faculty. From my experience, Australian universities are no more prone to arbitrarily firing academics than universities in any other place in the world. And the Canadian tenure system works quite differently than the American system, with a higher rate of tenure success.

I'd be more concerned with what I see as relatively low wages in Perth/Vancouver/Victoria/Calgary/Edmonton in comparison to housing and living. Having said that, the wages in Canada are generally pretty high compared to many American universities - you can also check out wages on the university websites in Western Australia, which are more non-negotiable than salaries in Canadian unis.

And of course, as larryc points out, all of this really depends on the field - the two major universities in Alberta are advertising for dozens or even hundreds of new positions in the next few years, with most of those in medical research, engineering and other industry-related science fields, and especially those related to the oil industry. Getting a job in say, English or History, would be much more difficult.

[dundee]

As sandrino said, there are five universities in and around Perth. No matter what field you are in, that makes your chances pretty slim, especially when compared to somewhere like Boston. Even if all five W.A. universities have an opening in your field, the chances of getting a job from just five applications are slim.

[sandrino]

That's true, Dundee, but I'll venture to guess that the number of applicants/position is far lower for a Perth uni job than a Boston-area uni job (from my own, admittedly limited experience in job-hunting in Perth). That could make it easier to land a job in a specific Perth university than in a specific Boston university (except that as you note there are far more universities in Boston). Also, I believe that an American applicant in Australia would have a better chance than an Australian applicant in the US (Australian academic insecurity versus American academic superiority beliefs). Take a look at UWA or Murdoch or Curtin faculty bios and compare them to BU, BC, and Tufts or someplace more-or-less equivalent in Boston... I think the Boston bios would be objectively better.

I'm not sure of the above, because it also is true that Boston has 20 times more universities than Perth (although maybe not 20 times more students...). Plus, there is an overall PhD shortage in Australia, which I don't think is the case in the US. (see http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22741091-462,00.html

[anxiousgradstudent]

Thanks sandrino. I appreciate the optimism. I will just cross my fingers and hope things work out. I just need to get out of the US soon. While it's a beautiful country I can't stand the way it is being run these days. (regrettably) my major is communication studies (rhetoric emphasis) so i guess I fall in the humanities range (my phd is from flagship public university in the Midwest). Are there any website that offer advice on landing a job overseas? Do you currently work in Perth Sandrino? Do you like it there?

thanks all

[sandrino]

I lived for a time in Perth, but not as an academic, although I'm now reasonably connected with some of the universities there through some project work. Perth is a good place to live, and lots of Americans/Canadians/and especially Brits can be found who wouldn't trade it for anything. Climate-wise, it's terrific, and the beaches around the city are beautiful, and the regions down south are quite interesting, with some world-class wineries in and around Margaret River. Not much north of the city, unless you go the 1200 kms. or whatever to Exmouth/Ningaloo and environs, which is spectacular. To the west is the Indian Ocean (and Rottnest Island), and to the east is not much for thousands of kms. It's a pretty isolated city - claimed as the world's most isolated capital city, or some such. Lots of migration from eastern Australia in the last decade, and along with the mining boom, this has resulted in a dramatic housing cost increase in the last 5 years.

University-wise, UWA is tops, followed more-or-less by Murdoch and Curtin (depending on field), with Edith Cowan some ways behind, and Notre Dame - a smaller private university in Fremantle - somewhere in there. There is concern about possible declining student numbers/demand in some fields, but as I mentioned, my perception is that there aren't tons of serious applicants for some academic jobs. I'm pretty sure the wage scale is the same at each of the universities, or at least very similar, and the ranks are slightly different from the US/Canada (lecturer/senior lecturer/associate prof/prof). The salary scales are published on the university websites, and you can find house prices through the real estate online sites, although like anywhere else, the best neighbourhoods to live are more expensive, and there are some depressing neighbourhoods in and around Perth.

When I was interested in working there, I just bookmarked the employment pages from the two universities that interested me, and followed that up every few weeks. Jobs are posted pretty randomly, it seems. Not long ago, I was in negotiations with one of the unis about a job, but it didn't work out for a variety of personal reasons. I'm OK with that - lifestyle would have been good - but it's also a bit cut off from the academic mainstream in my field, and it's a long flight if you want to get back to North America, or long flights, since I don't think there are any Canada/US - Perth non-stop flights.

Ah, but the wine... and the beaches. And they have free gas barbecues at the beaches, and you can bring a bottle of wine to the beach (or to most restaurants), and there's a couple of outdoor cinemas where you bring a picnic before the movie, and the Freo Dockers are great, and the Eagles are in turmoil, and Little Creatures brewery is great, and Rottnest Island is good for Christmas, if you can get a spot... enough of this. Anyway, it's a pretty great place to live.

Applying isn't hard, and you never know what can happen, so go for it, anxiousgradstudent. You might want to read some of the Australian higher education papers/websites, like the one The Australian newspaper puts out, and I think there's another one, can't recall. OK, enough reminiscing.

[mingus]

To tom74: Please tell me more.  I resigned from a tenured position in Australia only 2 years ago.  As far as I can tell, the confirmation of a "probationary appointment" in Australia may not be as big a deal as granting of tenure in the US, but practical effects are exactly the same.  What do you know that we don't?

[tom74]

Key resource for job hunting in academia in Australia:

http://www.eng.newcastle.edu.au/~azk303/academic.html

As for tenure in Australia, yes obviously there are a number of different situation in different countries around the world. But positions in Australia are not described as tenured, rather as permanent - and go without the benefits usually ascribed to 'tenure' in the USA.

The poster who had a tenured position in Australia may be an exception to a general rule which I am describing.

[mingus]

Dear Tom

I am still curious as to where you get this information in relation to tenure in Australia.  As I said, Australia does not have the meat-grinding tenure system of the USA, nor is what they called such, but academic do have tenure.  In fact most academics in Australia are tenured: at my university, it was about 83%.  I am was no exception, but perhaps we can argue once you state what the "benefits" you have in mind are. 

[mingus]

PS tom74: "peremanent" seems pretty tenured to me.  Also, if you read the conditions for permanent employment (which is usually accorded after a 2 or 3 year) probabitionary period, they are not different from "tenured" in the USA.  To say that there are no tenured positions because they are permanent is rather misleading as it suggests to people that there is little job security. 

[chocky]

I agree with mingus. I have held academic positions in the UK, Australia and the US. As far as I can see, the situation in terms of job security is actually better in the UK and Australia, because you don't have to jump through any tenure hoops and yet you have a permanent, secure position once you have completed your probationary period. And the reality is you generally have to be pretty poor or clearly failing in some way to not get through the probationary period successfully. By contrast, people sometimes don't get tenure in the US even though they have worked hard and been productive because in some instances the bar is set very high, or for other nefarious reasons like departmental politics (judging by some of the threads on other boards, at any rate). I don't think the OP should be put off their quest for a job in WA by issues of job security.

I am wondering why the OP is only considering WA? In fact that is where I was based. I think Sandrino sums up the options there well. Speaking personally, UWA really is the only place I would now consider for an academic job in WA, and even then there are other things that would put me off going back -- the isolation, for one, and the extreme climate at times (Perth was 104F in the shade on Christmas day this year!). But I suppose it depends what you are looking for. The options in terms of jobs are pretty limited if you rule out the rest of Australia.

One thing I would caution the OP about is teaching loads. Mine was very heavy compared to the UK, which was a major factor in why I did not stay. I thought this was due to not being in a tier 1 (Group of Eight) university. But I have recently heard of a friend of a friend in a G8 uni on the East coast having a terrible time with very heavy teaching loads and unrealistic demands from management for teaching new classes every year, which really adds to the workload in terms of new preps. My experience might not be universal, but it seems it is not a one-off. I'd be interested to hear from others about whether they have different experiences. Having said that, my US colleagues say that UK loads are light compared to some places in the US, so maybe my expectations were unrealistic in the first place.....