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[phaddish]

So I'm in a humanities graduate program that requires a paper to get one's master's, in order to make an internal move to phd status.  My paper failed miserably, it was a very unpleasant and hostile meeting -- I'm nontraditional age, and I have to tell you, I've never been treated so badly by a person in a professional setting in my life. (I had avoided taking a class with this person because I could tell hu was very difficult to work with, but had no choice about having hur on one of my committees.  But to compensate, I had read hur stuff verrrrry carefully.)  My understanding, talking to the other profs, is that they did not think so poorly of my work, but allowed the loudest voice to carry the day, since hu was the expert in that field.  I passed the other papers just fine, but this failure ended up being a big black mark -- there were other consequences in terms of funding, delays in (and some doubts about) acceptance to the phd program, and so on.  Few people fail these things here -- only people who really shouldn't be here.  I resubmitted the paper six months later (the earliest opportunity to resubmit), with major revisions, and it passed, so I'm mostly over it, except for one big thing, that is still nagging at me.

In rewriting the paper, I asked all my friends for their papers on this sort of subject, trying to figure out where I went so wrong. I discovered that one friend wrote on basically the same topic, with largely the same committee who failed me.  Hu pretty much plagiarized hur whole paper, cutting and pasting whole paragraphs from these same professors' syllabi, articles, and books. 

I can believe that one may not recognize plagiarism, especially if one is not looking for it, even if it comes from one's own work.  But the prof who gave me such a hard time about my paper did recognize the plagiarism -- hu told my friend that hu was being "a little too faithful".  (It was far more than this implies -- I teach undergraduates here as well, and this would have been a Level 5 infraction, requiring suspension.  I've gotten students suspended for much less.  At the graduate level, any infraction, even a milder one, would require permanent dismissal.)  My friend's plagiarized paper passed with glowing commendations at about the same time that mine failed.  Unsurprising, really, since imitation is the highest form of flattery, and all...  We are both in the phd segment of the program, now, and will graduate in several years' time.

My friend seemed oblivious to the fact that hu plagiarized (hu is from another country, with very different standards) -- and for a number of reasons I'm not interested in getting hur booted from school -- one of which is that it is not my job to supervise hur doctoral training, another of which is that I wouldn't know about hur infraction if hu hadn't generously shared hur work with me, to help me pass.  I also wouldn't have known that the prof recognized the plagiarism without hur telling me exactly what hu said.  I've had a very serious plagiarism talk with hur, including about hus paper.  Hu is unlikely to do this again, as I've indicated I will be watching. Hu has actually come to me with original source material and a paper hu wrote using it, to make sure hu is not plagiarizing.  There are other factors, as well -- I do not believe that getting hur booted is right.

I'm more interested in the professor, and hur role.  I'm fairly well liked in the department generally, but the negative consequences of this are still there.  Furthermore, with one very powerful member of the department so egregiously picking winners and losers, I'm not at all sure that I will not suffer further consequences of being disliked by hur.

So:

1) Am I blowing this all out of proportion like the neurotic grad student this makes me feel like?  It's possible that my first paper was that bad, and that the prof saw enough redeeming features in the friend's paper to pass it anyway.
2) Should I do anything?  If so,
3) What?

My inclinations are to file a confidential complaint with the dean about only my treatment.  That way, if there are any further complaints of a similar nature, it will make a pattern, and they may choose to take appropriate action.  This does not solve the problem of impact on my career, but it's something.  Other suggestions?

[goldenapple]

My inclinations are to file a confidential complaint with the dean about only my treatment.  That way, if there are any further complaints of a similar nature, it will make a pattern, and they may choose to take appropriate action.  This does not solve the problem of impact on my career, but it's something.  Other suggestions?

How could this possibly benefit you?

Your complaint would presumably say that you had a meeting with Prof. X and Prof. X said "blah, blah, blah" and you thought that this was unprofessional. Unless Prof. X's statements violated some campus rule of conduct and unless you can verify this (email, written comments, etc.), then this will appear to be a personal complaint about a personal affront. It will not lay the foundation for a pattern of behavior on the professor's part. It will lay the foundation for a pattern of behavior on your part. You will have enshrined yourself on paper as a complainer and a "problem student."

Your professor may have been unfair, a jerk, and who knows what else -- but you haven't presented any evidence that, in dealing with you, this professor has violated any rule that should concern the Dean. And you're the one who had to resubmit a paper, so your complaint will make you look like a crank. You can't afford that. There was a problem with your paper. You resubmitted it. It was accepted. It's over. Going to the Dean gains you nothing and looks like the vengeance of someone who can't take criticism.

Don't submit a complaint. Please. Save yourself. 

[_touchedbyanoodle_]

Could you clarify what you hope to gain by submitting the complaint? In 30 words or less. :)

[phaddish]

I understand this prof is the subject of many complaints.  Perhaps adding my voice to the ledger will help.  I had a verbal conversation with a dean about the plagiarism, and she said this was one way to deal with it, without forcing her to boot my friend.

Crap.  I violated Touched's request by a dozen words or so.  Crap.  There's a dozen more.  And six more.  Poop.

[goldenapple]

I understand this prof is the subject of many complaints.  Perhaps adding my voice to the ledger will help. 

But how will it help you?

[malinche]

Is applying to a different phd program elsewhere an option?  If you have to work with this professor for the dissertation because you're interested in the same period/topics then your looking to working with someone who can make the rest of your grad school experience incredibly unpleasant.  If you can't find common ground with this person, either find a different program or rethink your interests so that you can work with someone else.

[t_r_b]

My inclinations are to file a confidential complaint with the dean about only my treatment. 

What specifically do you plan to complain about? That your original paper should have been accepted? I don't see what this would achieve, since the revised version passed anyway and you've advanced to the PhD program already. Considering that the rest of the committee backed up the problem prof, you'd probably have a very hard time convincing the dean that you should have passed. It will sound like sour grapes (whether or not it really is), and bizarrely belated sour grapes at that.

It sounds like your main concern isn't with how you yourself were treated, but rather that another grad student was treated better despite having done fraudulent work. Since you don't want to go after the other student, I don't see what there is to be gained here. You say that if others make similar complaints, the powers that be may take "appropriate action": even in the unlikely scenario that a critical mass of complaints emerges, what kind of "appropriate action" do you envision here? If this is a tenured faculty member, the maximum penalty for something like this is probably a stern talking to.

Looks like a bunch of folks beat me to the punch. I'll second Malinche by the way - I'd avoid working with this person in the future, and if that means going elsewhere, so be it.

[untenured]

This experience is a valuable lesson for you.  Academia will not always treat you fairly.  In this situation, you are in a weak power position levying accusations against a strong power position.  The Dean has every incentive to side with the faculty member and not you.  You will be gone in a few years.  The advisor will remain.

Cast aside any hopes of making the school a better place by complaining about the advisor.  If this advisor is the subject of so many complaints, don't you think the Dean and other faculty are already aware of the problem?  If faculty and administration are already aware of the problem and the advisor is still here, alive and well, that tells you something.  To them, there's no problem.  At least, there's no problem worth dealing with.

This is a fine lesson to learn.  Know when to fight.  Know when to move on.  The benefit to you in fighting is near zero.  The loss to you is potentially catastrophic.  Don't throw graduate school away for a vague sense of justice.

Untenured

[t_r_b]

I had a verbal conversation with a dean about the plagiarism, and she said this was one way to deal with it, without forcing her to boot my friend.

Translation: "Hmm, I'm a dean and I need to make some kind of gesture indicating concern about academic integrity, but neither of us wants to go after the grad student and the faculty member hasn't committed any actionable offense. If you really insist on doing something you can send me a written complaint to add to the pile we've already got on this guy (who's clearly a real winner). Nothing will come of it, because after all hu is tenured, but by telling you to do this I get you off my back and give you the illusion that we're actually taking meaningful action."

In other words, a big waste of your time.

[phaddish]

I guess I was fantasizing about an army of outraged CHE forumites marching on the school and demanding a resignation.  (And what would our army look like?  I shudder....)

Failing that, it just seems so weird to do... nothing.  

I understand the concerns about sour grapes, and I believe you are right.  And really, since I've moved on, I don't much have them.  I'm more concerned about a professor knowingly rewarding plagiarism -- doesn't that call into question hur fitness to supervise future phds, or whatnot?  I would think very poorly of a teacher who knowingly passed undergraduate plagiarism, much less...

[untenured]

Failing that, it just seems so weird to do... nothing.  

It does.

Do you know what that feeling is?  That's the remnant of your academic moral core wasting away.  That's your budding sense of justice and fairness wilting on the vine.

Let it die.  When you receive tenure you can fight all you like.  Until then, STFU and get back to work.

:)

Untenured

[contemporary_]

So:

1) Am I blowing this all out of proportion like the neurotic grad student this makes me feel like?

Yes, that is the role of the grad student.  The flipping out will be professionalized out of you, or not.

The dead give away is all of the back story that precedes the plagiarism allegation.  Do nothing, you are coming from the wrong place.  Your motives are so far from pure that nothing good can come from action.

BTW, you might want to give more time to thinking about how you are going to handle the her ("hur"?  don't bother) who hates you for the next few years. 

[vagarh]

I'm more concerned about a professor knowingly rewarding plagiarism -- doesn't that call into question hur fitness to supervise future phds, or whatnot?  I would think very poorly of a teacher who knowingly passed undergraduate plagiarism, much less...

And yet you don't want to see your friend get punished for it, so it seems you actually agree with the professor on this matter. Maybe the professor decided that hur [sic] comment on the paper being 'too faithful' was a sufficient deterrent from further mistakes.

[contemporary_]

I'm not interested in getting hur booted from school -- one of which is that 1)it is not my job to supervise hur doctoral training, another of which is that I wouldn't know about hur infraction if hu hadn't generously shared hur work with me, to help me pass.  I also wouldn't have known that the prof recognized the plagiarism without hur telling me exactly what hu said.  I've had a very serious plagiarism talk with hur, including about hus paper. 2) Hu is unlikely to do this again, as I've indicated I will be watching. Hu has actually come to me with original source material and a paper hu wrote using it, to make sure hu is not plagiarizing.  There are other factors, as well -- 3)I do not believe that getting hur booted is right.

I'm more interested in the professor, and hur role. 4) I'm fairly well liked in the department generally, but the negative consequences of this are still there.  Furthermore, with one very powerful member of the department so egregiously picking winners and losers, I'm not at all sure that I will not suffer further consequences of being disliked by hur.

In a feisty mood this morning.

1)  Clearly you don't believe this, see 2 (above).

2) See 1. Why are you watching again?

3) See 1 and 2.

4) Doubt it.  You would have passed if this were true.  Someone would have gone to bat for you.  If plagiarists are passing with flying colors, I'd be concerned about my own ass, not figuring out how to best intimidate and torpedo others.



Recommendation: morality check, ethical review, collegiality training and introspection.  Explore the real dilemma, the one inside of you.

[phaddish]

I'm really not sure I deserve the personal attack.  I was looking for advice, and got some very sound advice from people who are a lot more familiar with academia than I am.  I appreciate that a great deal.  Perspective from other people sure helps.  Why one would suppose anything further about my character or motives is confusing to me. 

Is this not the forum where we are supposed to be able to ask questions beyond our ken, about things we don't understand, and get support?